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The real Brexit thread

OnlyOneTugay

Prediction Champion 2019 & 2020
Interesting because although Orwell was a classic socialist in the same mould as Michael Foot and Aneurin Bevan (and probably Jeremy Corbyn) and was a card-carrying member of the independent Labour party, he also maintained that no person or party was above criticism. He was also a staunch patriot.
Micheal Foot was a staunch Eurosceptic , culminating in his commitment to leave the EEC . As was one of his acolytes Anthony Wedgewood Benn and I'd wager Bevan would have been too . The EU has seen years of protectionism and subsidy for well-off European farmers stunting the growth of developing economies and literally starving poorer competitors around the world. The idiotic common fisheries policy played a major role in the ecological disaster engulfing North Sea fish stocks and not long ago the EU's coup de grace , brutally sacrificing Greece in order to maintain the stability of a single currency that mainly benefits far wealthier countries in northern Europe.

However you're missing my point . Bevan and Foot , however misguided , in their time represented the patrotic working class .
Corbyn is a fraud , a terrorist sympathiser , calls Hamas and Hezbollah his friends and no more represents the patriotic working class of our great country than Abbott , Thornberry and Chakrabati . They are the face of the patriotically bankrupt, intellectual *left .

*Accepted that with some of them the word 'intellectual ' is used in loosely .
 
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Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Quite true OOT. I can't ever recall a more shambolic and inept Shadow Cabinet than the one brought about by Corbyn's deep unpopularity amongst the parliamentary Labour Party.
 

chor808

Senior Member
Alright he is not in power in Germany, yet. But heck lets get out of there quick. Oh and if you don't sign up you would be kicked out anyway. Ben is going to choke on this one.

https://www.ft.com/content/ec2a8982-db4a-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...martinschulz-seeks-united-states-europe-2025/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...me-United-States-of-Europe-says-Martin-Schulz

It must be a fake news story or fake twitter however when I read his tweet I keep using a German voice from allo allo.

A convention shall draft this treaty in close cooperation with the civil society and the people. Its results will then be submitted to all member states. Any state that won’t ratify this treaty will automatically leave the EU.
 
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yoda

Senior Member
Alright he is not in power in Germany, yet. But heck lets get out of there quick. Oh and if you don't sign up you would be kicked out anyway. Ben is going to choke on this one.

https://www.ft.com/content/ec2a8982-db4a-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...martinschulz-seeks-united-states-europe-2025/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...me-United-States-of-Europe-says-Martin-Schulz

It must be a fake news story or fake twitter however when I read his tweet I keep using a German voice from allo allo.

A convention shall draft this treaty in close cooperation with the civil society and the people. Its results will then be submitted to all member states. Any state that won’t ratify this treaty will automatically leave the EU.

So why is the 4th Reich asking us for money, we just don't sign the new treaty and leave, simples
 

darrenrover

Senior Member
Two centuries ago, German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer summed up Brexiteers perfectly.

“The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen.

"The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes.

"But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”

Chris
Is that your answer to the question posed?
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
However you're missing my point . Bevan and Foot , however misguided , in their time represented the patrotic working class .
Corbyn is a fraud
The more I read about Labour and their (last) manifesto, the more clear it is that they have the answers to many of the problems that plague society today.

Suggestions that they are a 'hard left' party are palpably false. Most of their ideas are at the centre left in Europe. Winston Churchill (that soppy lefty) advocated a land value tax in 1909.

These aren't communist ideas. It is a remarkable insight into how far to the right the UK has gone, that Corbyn is described in these terms.

And to be clear I have voted Tory more often than not. I voted Labour at the last election and I will vote for them again next time.

Chris
 

yoda

Senior Member
The more I read about Labour and their (last) manifesto, the more clear it is that they have the answers to many of the problems that plague society today.

Suggestions that they are a 'hard left' party are palpably false. Most of their ideas are at the centre left in Europe. Winston Churchill (that soppy lefty) advocated a land value tax in 1909.

These aren't communist ideas. It is a remarkable insight into how far to the right the UK has gone, that Corbyn is described in these terms.

And to be clear I have voted Tory more often than not. I voted Labour at the last election and I will vote for them again next time.

Chris
How refreshingly naive

:eek:
 

davebirch

Senior Member
The more I read about Labour and their (last) manifesto, the more clear it is that they have the answers to many of the problems that plague society today.

Suggestions that they are a 'hard left' party are palpably false. Most of their ideas are at the centre left in Europe. Winston Churchill (that soppy lefty) advocated a land value tax in 1909.

These aren't communist ideas. It is a remarkable insight into how far to the right the UK has gone, that Corbyn is described in these terms.

And to be clear I have voted Tory more often than not. I voted Labour at the last election and I will vote for them again next time.

Chris
From what I have read, the Labour party in Britain has no real answer. They appear to be looking at populist solutions to attain government.
Really it needs positive policies, ones that will convince the voting public and business to accept what they are saying, what they are trying to achieve.
It cannot be all about giving to those that have nought. Those that have nought should be encouraged to become better off, to work for it. Those that don't want to do that then should be "encouraged" to get off the teat. Yes, there are those that will never be able to work or better themselves, they should be looked after.
As the POTUS Kennedy said "Ask not what your country can do for you, rather, what you can do for your country".

And to be clear, I have voted Labor more often than not. I voted Labor at the last election and I will vote for them again next time.
I've no time for ultra right christian fundamentalist wing politicians, of which we have too many in Australia.
What the UK needs is someone with a bit of vision, not someone who thinks those that are successful should pay for those that can't be arsed.
Encourage those that are successful, for without them you are stuffed.

sorry for being a bit all over the place, but I'm sure you get my drift.
 

OnlyOneTugay

Prediction Champion 2019 & 2020
The more I read about Labour and their (last) manifesto, the more clear it is that they have the answers to many of the problems that plague society today.

Suggestions that they are a 'hard left' party are palpably false. Most of their ideas are at the centre left in Europe. Winston Churchill (that soppy lefty) advocated a land value tax in 1909.

These aren't communist ideas. It is a remarkable insight into how far to the right the UK has gone, that Corbyn is described in these terms.

And to be clear I have voted Tory more often than not. I voted Labour at the last election and I will vote for them again next time.

Chris
The Conservatives are probably more centrist now than they have been for 40 years . Theresa May is more of a continental-style Christian Democrat and represents a bridge back to the pre- Margaret Thatcher years . I can't say I'm thrilled as in your words, we've had 40 years of economic success , largely built on Maggie's trade union reforms and deregulation of the labour market . To go back to the 1970's and re-introduce the tried and failed socialist policies, would give us what it gave us then, economic disaster .

In some ways Chris it's heartening that you've voted Conservative more often than not in the past, and although I don't know how old you are , your decision to vote for Corbyn's Labour goes against the oft quoted phrase " if a man is not socialist by the time he is 20, he has no heart. If he is not a conservative by the time he is 40, he has no brain.”

More Benjamin Button than Benjamin Kaynine ;)
 
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Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
The Conservatives are probably more centrist now than they have been for 40 years .

Seeing as hard right Conservatives such as Fox, Davis and Johnson are driving policy egged on by the swivel-eyed right on the backbenches in the shape of Rees-Mogg and Bone, this is plainly not true. This is the most right wing government in my lifetime, and that includes the Thatcherite junta that devastated large swathes of this country.
Chris
 

Alan

Administrator
Staff member
Seeing as hard right Conservatives such as Fox, Davis and Johnson are driving policy egged on by the swivel-eyed right on the backbenches in the shape of Rees-Mogg and Bone, this is plainly not true. This is the most right wing government in my lifetime, and that includes the Thatcherite junta that devastated large swathes of this country.
Chris
Now where have I heard that phrase before? Come on out.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
He's already been outed. Trust me.
The only other likely explanation could be that Chris and JimMk2 actually cohabit and enjoy the use of the same computer. Maybe Ben's included and the situation is troilism. :heart_eyes: Where Doris fits in to the equation (Oooh Matron) I've really no idea. o_O
 

yoda

Senior Member
He's already been outed. Trust me.
The only other likely explanation could be that Chris and JimMk2 actually cohabit and enjoy the use of the same computer. Maybe Ben's included and the situation is troilism. :heart_eyes: Where Doris fits in to the equation (Oooh Matron) I've really no idea. o_O

Split "personality's" maybe
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
Welcome defeat for May and the government in the Commons tonight - hopefully the first of many.

Maybe some sanity is returning amid this Brexit madness.
 
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