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The real Brexit thread

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
And no bull came from the remainers I suppose.:rolleyes: How about checking the many election promises made by the Labour party over the past 50 years and never kept?
Look the UK is leaving in 4 months! Get over it and then get on with facilitating the transition for the good of the nation and your fellow citizens. 100 years since armistice day and you sound not only poisonous but treasonous in siding with other nations against your own simply because imo of a deep bitterness caused imo by you incorrectly calling every major vote for nigh on twenty years. If you had any ancestors killed in 14-18 when fighting for this country you should look in a mirror and be ashamed of the person staring back at you. Back then the very best treatment you could hope for would have been to be tarred and feathered.
 
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A

ABBEY

Guest
Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...

"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.

The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.

But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?

A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.

Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.

Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).

UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.

As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."

Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
Back then the very best treatment you could hope for would have been to be tarred and feathered.
If in doubt, invoke the "treason" trope. Lift and dust. This is the dog-whistle politics of the hard right, part of a deliberate campaign of fallacies designed to shut down debate and try to intimidate people who are opposed to leaving the EU.

It won't work.

In any case, the dog whistlers conveniently forget the treason they committed 30 years ago and continue to this day.

Chris



 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Rubbish! Thatcher wasn't responsible at all it was the communist led unions were to blame. They'd brought down two governments in the 70's and Thatcher quite rightly and to her eternal credit made sure that unelected communist union leaders would not bring down another democratically elected UK govt. Anybody who disagrees with that is either an enemy of democracy or a fully paid up member of Momentum.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
A few posts up and you quote Tony Abbot's thoughts on Brexit which as far as I can see would be virtually straight out of Thatcher's handbook! You're running with the hare and hunting with the hounds Abbey.
Pretty sure she'd have had this brexit malarky sorted by now if she'd been in No 10.... and I'm pretty sure that you agree too!

 

OnlyOneTugay

Prediction Champion 2019 & 2020
Scargill and his fellow hypocrite communist Union leaders tried bringing down a goverment. They didn’t give a toss about the miners and had this country on its knees until Maggie said no more. How can anyone whose old enough not remember the socialist car crash that was the 1970s ? Thank the Lord for Maggie and the 40 plus years of economic success that have followed . A period that has been championed by BenJimJohn on many occasions on this very forum .

Having said that , during that period Blair and Brown’s Labour presided over the halving of UK manufacturing , many more manufacturing jobs lost under their government, than under Maggie .

The Loony Middle Class Left don’t give a fig for the ‘ workers ‘ , just love to virtue signal from the leafy suburbs and remoan for England ( but they hate England and the UK with a passion )

Has anyone noticed that the new loony left buzz word seems to be “ trope “ ? It’s beginning to rival “ racist “ in the regularity of its usage
 
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yoda

Senior Member
It's been obvious for ages ABBEY, people like John/Jim are part of the plan to end the UK as a nation state. The Reich know and have always known that the only obstacle to them controlling Europe is the UK.
That is why our industries have been depleted and are still are being with the EU offering big grants for companies to relocate on mainland Europe.
They are desperate to take large chunks of business from the City.
They are now making blatant attempts to break up the UK and it's territories (Gibraltar, NI) all designed to degrade the UK.
It all started with the take over in schools and Universities by what we know as "left wingers" but they are really the continuation of the National Socialist Party who realised the UK had to be controlled in more subtle way than bullets.
We would call them traitors.
Although in John's case he has probably just been brainwashed while being "educated" no excuse for selling out your country though is it John ?
 

OnlyOneTugay

Prediction Champion 2019 & 2020
That is why our industries have been depleted and are still are being with the EU offering big grants for companies to relocate on mainland Europe.
When the UK joined the EU in 1973 manufacturing made up 32% of the economy . It now makes up just 11% and halved under Blair and Brown .

The north has been the biggest loser in this decline . Although not fully to blame , membership of the EU hasn’t helped . On the other hand German manufacturing and its exporters continue to do extraordinarily well out of the EU and the relatively weak euro .
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Bloody stupid if BenJimJohns nothing to gain from his stance.

As I've said many times the best way would have been for a coalition of brexiteers to oversee our exit. Plain common sense which I can't remember anyone of influence suggesting. Not a collection of wishy washy remainers as is now the case after all the big brexit guns have or are resigning from the front line.
 

yoda

Senior Member
When the UK joined the EU in 1973 manufacturing made up 32% of the economy . It now makes up just 11% and halved under Blair and Brown .

The north has been the biggest loser in this decline . Although not fully to blame , membership of the EU hasn’t helped . On the other hand German manufacturing and its exporters continue to do extraordinarily well out of the EU and the relatively weak euro .
We didn't join the EU in 1973, we joined the EEC. The EU came later and we never had a referendum on that, the UK population has been duped by the "managed decline" civil service and snowflake "Politicians"
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46300247


Nearly as funny as when Thatcher fell down the stairs in Beijing after bungling the Hong Kong negotiations.

The Tories - only know how to sell things off (below market price)

Barnier must be thrilled. The UK is right where he wants it: a supplicant nation like Turkey or the Ukraine, with no seat at the table but still paying the EU handsomely and following orders.

Brexiters, you’ve excelled yourselves!

Chris
 

yoda

Senior Member
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46300247


Nearly as funny as when Thatcher fell down the stairs in Beijing after bungling the Hong Kong negotiations.

The Tories - only know how to sell things off (below market price)

Barnier must be thrilled. The UK is right where he wants it: a supplicant nation like Turkey or the Ukraine, with no seat at the table but still paying the EU handsomely and following orders.

Brexiters, you’ve excelled yourselves!

Chris
Not really John, your bitch comrade Corbyn is voting against the deal remember
 
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