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ABBEY

Guest
When I was in high school there were always a few armed teachers (a retired Marine and a couple of rednecks). There were several trucks with rifles in the parking lot. Then came the “gun free school zone” laws. Surprisingly (for those without a brain) mass shootings at school became a thing.
I wouldn't be proud of going to a school where teachers carried guns. It's so 1850's.
 

Steve Moss

Senior Member
I wouldn't be proud of going to a school where teachers carried guns. It's so 1850's.
I think our ancestors from the 1850s built the USA and the UK and would be more than slightly contemptuous of what we, their descendants, have become. We could learn a few lessons from the 1850s, not the least of which is that the world is a hard place, large portions of the world will gladly take from us what we (or our grandfathers) achieved, and if we aren’t willing to make hard decisions and do hard things, we will leave our children in a precarious position vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

We live in a golden age created by our ancestors. We have grown soft and spend more energy worring about offending the barbarians at the gates (and some inside the city) then we do preserving what our grandfathers created.
 
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Steve Moss

Senior Member
But kids keeping dying by the class but gun people don't give a flying
I do give a “flying”. But I also recognize the solutions proposed by some dunderheads won’t work. There are some solutions which will work, such as repealing the gun free school zone laws, prohibiting those on psychotropic drugs from buying firearms, imposing fines on government officials who fail to report to NICS (which failure allows millions of prohibited possessors to purchase firearms), and providing grants for schools which want to put in armed security (which amazingly enough our politicians send their kids to schools with this security and they have no mass shootings). I would even go so far as to require gun buyers to: take a gun safety course; and, submit an MMPI2 (or whatever version the psych assessment is on now) as a pre-condition to buying a firearm.

On the other hand, none of the above (except maybe armed teachers and security) would have stopped Nikolas Cruz. He had three illegal firearms in his possession. He could have just as easily killed with those as he did with his AR-15.

What I will not do is surrender one inch of my civil rights. What I will not do is rely on the government for my safety. The government has failed on multiple occasions to stop mass shooters (despite notice and the power to act) and enacts ineffective policies to prevent mass shootings (98% of mass shootings occur in “gun free” zones). I do not chose to trust my personal safety and the safety of my family to incompetents.
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
. What I will not do is rely on the government for my safety. The government has failed on multiple occasions to stop mass shooters.
Agreed. Your government has failed to protect you by banning the cause of the problem...... the easy availability and use of firearms. It too you a long time to get there but well done.

Mental health is the problem according to the right wing fruitcases. Well, here's one who's clearly off his trolley.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...arming-teachers-stop-future-school-shootings/
 

Steve Moss

Senior Member
Agreed. Your government has failed to protect you by banning the cause of the problem...... the easy availability and use of firearms. It too you a long time to get there but well done.

Mental health is the problem according to the right wing fruitcases. Well, here's one who's clearly off his trolley.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...arming-teachers-stop-future-school-shootings/
The ease and availability of firearms is a feature, not a bug.

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788.
 

yoda

Senior Member
If guns are to protect the population from the politicians, why are the general public getting slaughtered? Then again if one politician day was being gunned down how long would it take for them to find a solution?
 

Steve Moss

Senior Member
If guns are to protect the population from the politicians, why are the general public getting slaughtered? Then again if one politician day was being gunned down how long would it take for them to find a solution?
It depends on what you mean by population. If you consider the rural and suburban populations, we aren’t being slaughtered, regardless of race. The homicide rate in that population is comparable to the UK.

The USA homicide rate bounces around 4-5/100,000. It is several times that rate among the big city population. If you consider the big city population, especially blacks, they are being slaughtered.

The USA homicide rate is an average across all populations. But more than half the counties in the USA have a murder rate of 0. 2% of counties account for more than half the murders. So the bulk of the USA voting population does not experience the crime that you perceive on TV, or a reading of statistics, despite having most of the guns.
 

Steve Moss

Senior Member
You heard it, ladies and gentlemen. There's nothing to stop anyone going on a mass shooting spree.

Still no reason to ban guns, though. ;)
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I used the phrase “mass murder”, not mass shooting.

Tell me, master of logic and rhetoric, was Salman Ramadan Abedi a genius? Or was he a school drop out, petty offender and drug user? And did any of that stop him from murdering 22 people (10 of them children) and wounding 520, all without a gun?

What is beyond disbelief is that he financed his activities at UK taxpayer expense, with his school loans.

And if you don’t think you have more of this coming in your future, read this article. Apparently even the moderates are horrified that their seven year old daughters wouldn’t be forced to wear a hijab and were being taught to be British citizens.

https://www.steynonline.com/8482/the-state-submits

If people want to kill, even in large numbers, they will. A lack of guns won’t stop them. The world is not safe and cannot be made safe. Get used to it.
 

blueandwhitehalves

Senior Member
I agree with those saying guns should be banned in America although I'm a little puzzled by our fascination with it over here. A large volume of comments on it on this site, a huge volume on brfcs, the BBC producing scores of articles after each shooting spree, the likes of Piers Morgan taking up residence on American tv to dispense advice on it.

Seems to me, just like feminists obsessing over how western society conducts itself whilst ignoring the vast gender inequality in the rest of the world, its simply the easy target. If only the same level of scrutiny on social media and in the general media was given to rising UK knife crime, rising UK acid attacks, female genital mutilation in the UK, the aggressive attempts to subvert western education by hundreds of Muslim communities in the UK, the horrific child grooming rings that likely still exist in many northern towns.

Those topics get you an uncomfortable wince in reply. Lambasting gun control in a country on the other side of the world gets you some enthusiastic concurrence because everyone likes to lecture "thick Americans".
 
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Steve Moss

Senior Member
It can be made a hell of safer if guns was banned
Not banned, eliminated. A law could be passed banning guns but it would require people to comply with it. That is unlikely in America.

When New York passed a law requiring the registration of assault weapons, a million New Yorkers refused to comply. When Connecticut tried the same thing, they experienced the same result- a small fraction of gun owners complied, the vast bulk of them ignored the law.

You keep trying to apply UK solutions to American problems. Those efforts are doomed to failure.
 

Steve Moss

Senior Member
. . . No one said the world will ever be free from violence, but it could be a little safer from gun crime if a ban was imposed.
Now it’s “gun crime”? Tell me, do you know how many crimes are prevented every year by gun owning Americans? Do you know how criminals were deterred by gunning owning Americans?
 

Steve Moss

Senior Member
You have created a false equivalency between isolated terrorist attacks in Europe and fatal shootings in America (of which there have been over 2,000 already this year).
False equivalency? How so? A dead child is a dead child, regardless of method.

The UK is as incapable of protecting it’s people from mass murder, same as America. I chose to allow people the right to try to defend themselves. You want to turn the people into sheep. We’ll see which policy is best, in the long run.

In the meantime there will be no American gun ban (short of a Constitutional Amendment) in the USA.
 
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