The real Brexit thread

[Drog]

I do believe I've been sick a little in my mouth

Mind it doesn't cover your blinkers then.

 

[Steve Moss]

There’s always two sides to a story, as this conversation reminds me. I’ve always admired Thatcher’s strength, focus and wit. Apparently her policies had some adverse impact on the North but surely there was a net benefit to England as a whole? And Theno has a point, if she was such an ogre, why is it that Labour failed to reverse course?

 

[Benjamin Kaynine]

I don't whine! I am merely stating fact. Thatchers actions had nothing to do with economics. It was all about winning a personal battle with the miners union leaders and the miners themselves and their families (and my company) were collateral damage that she didn't care a hoot about as long as she won her personal battle. Uncaring bitch.

Smash the trade unions and bugger the consequences. First it was the miners, then manufacturing in general across the north. Thatcher's Tories didn't care if there was collateral damage because the north in their eyes was finished. Who cares about the workers? Screw them to the floor.

 

[Steve Moss]

Smash the trade unions and bugger the consequences. First it was the miners, then manufacturing in general across the north. Thatcher's Tories didn't care if there was collateral damage because the north in their eyes was finished. Who cares about the workers? Screw them to the floor.

Certainly not Labour, judging by certain of their policies.

A true workers party (not one focused on wastrels, financiers, and immigrants) would clean up at the polls. That party doesn’t exist (yet).

 

[Benjamin Kaynine]

Par for the course in nationalised industries . Run by communist led Unions , cushy jobs for their members with customers coming bottom of the list . British Leyland was a perfect example . Macron has seen the light and is following Margaret’s example - but it’s taken France 40 years .

Ah, the wonderful private sector, with Carillion a prime example of the stupidity of Tory economics.

We now have 43,000 workers worrying over their jobs; hundreds of public services at risk (including hospitals, schools, prisons & other public infrastructure); a government in chaos because they carried on handing out £billions in contracts to this stricken company even after three profit warnings; and a pension fund with a £600m black hole in it (which will be bailed out by the taxpayer).

Meanwhile, executives rewrote their bonus rules in 2016 (when the company was already in huge trouble) so that they could keep all their bonuses, even in the case of corporate collapse.

In short, a bunch of private profiteers has walked away with stacks of cash, leaving the public to pick up the bill for sorting out the chaos they've created.

 

[yoda]

There’s always two sides to a story, as this conversation reminds me. I’ve always admired Thatcher’s strength, focus and wit. Apparently her policies had some adverse impact on the North but surely there was a net benefit to England as a whole? And Theno has a point, if she was such an ogre, why is it that Labour failed to reverse course?

The country in general was sick and tired of being labeled the sick man of Europe/the English patient because of all the strikes and industrial disruption, something had to be done to break the negative aspect of the "unions" which had been hijacked for political means

 

[yoda]

Ah, the wonderful private sector, with Carillion a prime example of the stupidity of Tory economics.

We now have 43,000 workers worrying over their jobs; hundreds of public services at risk (including hospitals, schools, prisons & other public infrastructure); a government in chaos because they carried on handing out £billions in contracts to this stricken company even after three profit warnings; and a pension fund with a £600m black hole in it (which will be bailed out by the taxpayer).

Meanwhile, executives rewrote their bonus rules in 2016 (when the company was already in huge trouble) so that they could keep all their bonuses, even in the case of corporate collapse.

In short, a bunch of private profiteers has walked away with stacks of cash, leaving the public to pick up the bill for sorting out the chaos they've created.

It's not the government contracts that have caused the problem though, it is just stupid business practices, the kind you see in state run companies.

 

[Benjamin Kaynine]

It's not the government contracts that have caused the problem though, it is just stupid business practices, the kind you see in state run companies.

..............except this is a private company, like the wonderful banks, which had to be bailed by the taxpayer too

From a taxpayers' perspective, or from the perspective of good governance, the Carillion collapse is an absolutely scandalous failure.

However from a Tory party perspective it's actually another success story, because it's yet another example of the private sector soaking up all the profits at the taxpayers' expanse, then dumping the debts onto the taxpayer when the hollowed-out husk of the company collapses into liquidation.

Vince Cable was right on this one with his comments today.

 

[yoda]

..............except this is a private company, like the wonderful banks, which had to be bailed by the taxpayer too

From a taxpayers' perspective, or from the perspective of good governance, the Carillion collapse is an absolutely scandalous failure.

However from a Tory party perspective it's actually another success story, because it's yet another example of the private sector soaking up all the profits at the taxpayers' expanse, then dumping the debts onto the taxpayer when the hollowed-out husk of the company collapses into liquidation.

Vince Cable was right on this one with his comments today.

re the situation with Carrillion , it made me chuckle today hearing a radio host trying to explain to a rabid labour remoaner that the governments hands are tied by the EU regarding bailing out the company, ITS AGAINST THE RULES, ye gods

 

[yoda]

Well Well,

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...Claude-Juncker-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-EU-UK-Germany

 

[OnlyOneTugay]

Ah, the wonderful private sector, with Carillion a prime example of the stupidity of Tory economics.

We now have 43,000 workers worrying over their jobs; hundreds of public services at risk (including hospitals, schools, prisons & other public infrastructure); a government in chaos because they carried on handing out £billions in contracts to this stricken company even after three profit warnings; and a pension fund with a £600m black hole in it (which will be bailed out by the taxpayer).

Meanwhile, executives rewrote their bonus rules in 2016 (when the company was already in huge trouble) so that they could keep all their bonuses, even in the case of corporate collapse.

In short, a bunch of private profiteers has walked away with stacks of cash, leaving the public to pick up the bill for sorting out the chaos they've created.

The pension fund will not be bailed out by the taxpayer . It will come under the auspices of pension protection fund, which is funded by a levy on the private sector . Where do you get your information from ?

http://www.pensionprotectionfund.org.uk/DocumentLibrary/Documents/common_misconceptions.pdf

Now the gold plated public sector pensions are funded by the taxpayer & many of those are in a permenant state of being bailed out by the taxpayer week in week out . It’s so unfair to have such unaffordable pension schemes in the public sector subsidised by hard working taxpayers in the private sector that can only dream of such riches .

It was a poor decision to give new contracts after the profit warnings but that was an attempt to allow the company to trade out of its difficulties . It would have gone into administration a lot earlier without those .

Carillion was a badly run business. Too big and too diversified . It’s appalling that bosses continue to get paid if that is what is happening . However , badly run organisations are a feature of both the private & public sectors and scandously large payouts aren’t confined to the private sector .

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....e-chancellor-quits-after-outcry-over-468k-pay

We could resort to full scale nationalisation & a centrally planned economy but it’s not going too well in North Korea .

 

[Drog]

In short, a bunch of private profiteers has walked away with stacks of cash, leaving the public to pick up the bill for sorting out the chaos they've created.

Why have you brought Tony Blair and New Labour into this?

 

[Drog]

Well Well,

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...Claude-Juncker-Hans-Olaf-Henkel-EU-UK-Germany

Many view these people who head up the EU as supremely intelligent human beings when in reality they are proving to be pretty damned thick! Two countries pay the lions share of contributions to support / subsidise / develop 26 other member nations of the Eu. Those two nations are Germany and the UK and cos of Junker and his chums pissing up our elected leader David Cameron's leg the UK is leaving! Good luck you krauts.

 

[darrenrover]

Many view these people who head up the EU as supremely intelligent human beings when in reality they are proving to be pretty damned thick! Two countries pay the lions share of contributions to support / subsidise / develop 26 other member nations of the Eu. Those two nations are Germany and the UK and cos of Junker and his chums pissing up our elected leader David Cameron's leg the UK is leaving! Good luck you krauts.

And that about sums it up!

 

[yoda]

And that about sums it up!

Certainly sums up why I voted out

 

[Otto Mann]

That is economics though, the economics of the country, how much where the actions of the miners and general workers unions costing the country ? (at the time both controlled by communists by the way)

Edit

 

[OnlyOneTugay]

Ah, the wonderful private sector, with Carillion a prime example of the stupidity of Tory economics.

We now have 43,000 workers worrying over their jobs; hundreds of public services at risk (including hospitals, schools, prisons & other public infrastructure); a government in chaos because they carried on handing out £billions in contracts to this stricken company even after three profit warnings; and a pension fund with a £600m black hole in it (which will be bailed out by the taxpayer).

Meanwhile, executives rewrote their bonus rules in 2016 (when the company was already in huge trouble) so that they could keep all their bonuses, even in the case of corporate collapse.

In short, a bunch of private profiteers has walked away with stacks of cash, leaving the public to pick up the bill for sorting out the chaos they've created.

A Labour Council was ready to award a contract with a potential worth more than £100 million to Carillion only a week ago. Leeds City Council chose it as the preferred bidder to carry out the first stage of work on the East Leeds Orbital Road last Monday , despite Labour attacking the Government for awarding contracts after it issued a profit warning . Corbyn and his Trade Union puppet masters have remained silent on the decision made by Leeds City Council . The stench of hypocrisy is overpowering .

 

[OnlyOneTugay]

Smash the trade unions and bugger the consequences. First it was the miners, then manufacturing in general across the north. Thatcher's Tories didn't care if there was collateral damage because the north in their eyes was finished. Who cares about the workers? Screw them to the floor.

Smash the communist led Trade Unions and damn the consequences , yes Maggie did a sterling job and the country and the generations that followed should be eternally grateful . Moderate Trade Unions led by reasonable leaders , like the ones in Germany for example, who behaved sensibly in the 1970's whilst Scargill and Co were running amok , can make a great contribution to the prosperity of the country and their members. It's a pity many UK Trade Union leaders don't get the connection and just play politics e.g, Corbyn's puppet master , Red Ken

You keep quoting how Maggie smashed/destroyed/sacrificed manufacturing . Your lot did far more damage to manufacturing than Maggie ever did .It's to the credit of this government that manufacturing is back in vogue after those desperate years under Blair and Brown , when it was sacrificed on the altar of the under regulated financial sector, for which Brown has subsequently repented. . Thanks Gordon

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rdon-Brown-I-made-a-big-mistake-on-banks.html

 

[yoda]

This should be made compulsory viewing for snowflakes

https://www.express.co.uk/entertain...ry-Oldman-Winston-Churchill-standing-ovations

 

[Drog]

By coincidence I went to see that last night. Amazing performance from Gary Oldman who looked more like Churchill than Churchill! Also a completely believable Ben Mendelsohn as King George V1.