Why Is It ?

[ABBEY]

After returning from Zakynthos I have been thinking about the convos I had at the bar ,in the ER and on the beach.
I chatted with Millwall ,west brom, utd , Greek fans ,Albanian fans and Dingles . The chat unsurprisingly turned to the venkyscum and none could understand why fans have not kicked off and sat back and let this all happened without a fight .
Millwall guy was fuming and funny with it . Told him I'd been hit by police going on pitch , been in places I shan't say on here ,been on protests and nearly arrested .He bought me ouzo and a mythos.
They couldn't understand the abuse boycotting fans get and everyone to a man and woman want venkys out . Yet our fans don't rise up against them ...

 

[Drog]

They've changed their bloody tune then haven't they? When we could see the writing on the wall back in the day the rest of football, the press, media, public phone ins, Prem Managers all had us down as a set of ungrateful racist bastards.
Just another example of the inability of Joe Public (BRFC fans included) to see the wood for the trees when it mattered.

 

[ABBEY]

Maybe but they realise now the damage caused .

 

[dingles staying down]

Sad refelection on how much Media influence people's perceptions. When we were a premiership Sky and papers cast the fans as bad guys whilst other teams' fans protests were encouraged. For one reason or another, we know what or who it was, the fans were doomed. Negative media worked in killing protests. It is only now when the physical damage is there for everybody to see that even the media cannot deny what has happened has people's perceptions have changed.

 

[steve w]

Sad refelection on how much Media influence people's perceptions. When we were a premiership Sky and papers cast the fans as bad guys whilst other teams' fans protests were encouraged. For one reason or another, we know what or who it was, the fans were doomed. Negative media worked in killing protests. It is only now when the physical damage is there for everybody to see that even the media cannot deny what has happened has people's perceptions have changed.

Good point - I will never forgive or forget how some of the pundits were so negative towards Rovers fans when we tried to raise awareness to our plight back when Venkys took over(and have been totally vindicated!!)

The reality is we are a small club. How many fans have we got? ( from hard-core to casual like my sister who lives down south but is Blackburn born and bred, she only has a very passing interest but calls Rovers her team)

Truth be told 40/50k worldwide? if we got to the cup final could we sell our allocation?the vast majority don't have enough interest to get involved
Did Utd fans win?
Liverpool fans? maybe!
Coventry fans? Leeds fans? Charlton fans?..........................
We have to accept that until they decide otherwise Venkys own us - Sad but we are in a take it or leave it situation

 

[Drog]

Good point - I will never forgive or forget how some of the pundits were so negative towards Rovers fans when we tried to raise awareness to our plight back when Venkys took over(and have been totally vindicated!!)

The reality is we are a small club. How many fans have we got? ( from hard-core to casual like my sister who lives down south but is Blackburn born and bred, she only has a very passing interest but calls Rovers her team)

Truth be told 40/50k worldwide? if we got to the cup final could we sell our allocation?the vast majority don't have enough interest to get involved
Did Utd fans win?
Liverpool fans? maybe!
Coventry fans? Leeds fans? Charlton fans?..........................
We have to accept that until they decide otherwise Venkys own us - Sad but we are in a take it or leave it situation

Correct Steve. Worse than that in the not so long term is the fact that the demography of Blackburn is changing rapidly. Both my kids have left the area to work away as thousands others must have and their places in the town have been taken by our islamic friends. Unfortunately for one reason or another BRFC holds no or little attraction to these citizens. Surrounded as we are by PNE, Burnley and Bolton to be quite honest I see little future in the longer term for the club.

 

[yoda]

Why should it have been Blackburn ?, the huge change in demographics that is, is it the name of the town that caused it ?

Maybe a change of name might have averted the invasion, Accrington in essence changed to Hyndburn after all.

 

[Vinjay]

Why should it have been Blackburn ?, the huge change in demographics that is, is it the name of the town that caused it ?

Maybe a change of name might have averted the invasion, Accrington in essence changed to Hyndburn after all.

No Yoda its always the clubs fault as Theno and Steve demand it. Town size, minimum wage, etc in 60s as well that was all the clubs fault and turned it into a tiny club overnight despite having won 2 league titles (at that time), 6 FA Cups, etc. The first 90 years don't count. Its all about the 70s and 80s its the only period that counts.

I really do try not to get worked up about it these days but its hardly any wonder I've questioned if Jack would regret his investment. No matter what happens in the future I'll always be haunted by the thought that the answer might be yes. Theno was trying to put a dampener on everything moment he started spending.

 

[Drog]

Cotton's gone Vinjay. With it the wealth of this area and as everybody knows top flight football is all about wealth these days.

Just think though... No Jack Walker investment and two of the things you hate most in life notably the Walker children and the Venkys would never have crossed your path. Bliss eh? Or rather who would you have turned your anger and intense hatred onto in that scenario?

 

[Vinjay]

Cotton's gone Vinjay. With it the wealth of this area and as everybody knows top flight football is all about wealth these days.

Just think though... No Jack Walker investment and two of the things you hate most in life notably the Walker children and the Venkys would never have crossed your path. Bliss eh? Or rather who would you have turned your anger and intense hatred onto in that scenario?

Probably Man United. The first negative feeling I ever had related to football was towards them and their arrogant fans. It was shortly thereafter followed by VERY positive feelings towards Rovers and the game in general. Of course United were extremely unpopular in the whole town during that period until the hostility towards them decreased after Jack died.

The cotton industry was on the decline way before the 60's. Even in late 1800s the chamber of commerce warned there was too much reliance on cotton. Of course Rovers had Lawrence Cotton before Jack was even born but the club didn't collapse after he died. It didn't win a league title but the FA Cup in 1928 and consistently in the top 2 divisions including a title challenge in the 60s. Unfortunately the club made a series of errors starting with the FA Cup final ticket problems which many fans never forgave the club for. Everything possible went wrong on the day itself with Dougan handing in a transfer request. Also you may not have heard this but Dave Whelan broke his leg. Then the board sold Pickering which older fans blame on the board being total cheapskates. That seems to be the one that truly put the club on the path to relegation. Clayton and Douglas both retired in the late 60s and it was difficult for any club to replace them. In the 70s and 80s attendances were down everywhere. The club had 4 years in the third division (as it was called then) and you can't say the board being so tight had nothing to do with that.

Yes there were more financial problems later on (1983 seemed to be the worst from what I've seen in the Library LT archives) but its hardly any wonder attendances dropped. Clearly as many people didn't go to football games because more people had cars, televisions, etc. Of course by the 60s most people had Tvs (and maybe cars as well) but there were more things for people to spend money on as well. They could go to the modernised shopping centres or on a day trip outside the town in their car. It was still a big club (you can't ignore the first 90 years I bet nobody called it a small club then) but the town became more of a factor. That combined with the poor image of football at the time (hooligans, etc) didn't help.

 

[Vinjay]

Don't think it helps that your average footy fan gets his info from SKY/SEM Sports. They did their darndest to paint Kean as the martyr against the baying hordes of ungrateful, unwashed Northerners. Almost as if they had a vested interest in doing so. Throw in the fact that most supporters are too wrapped up with their own club to really do their homework and what do we expect?

Wasn't just the media though it didn't help. Moyes spoke out after the Bolton game and even likes of Dalglish defended Kean. Ferguson also did despite the fact Kean called his mate a crook and stabbed him in the back. I don't think Anderson put those words in their mouths (Ferguson of course when he was choosing to defend his mate criticised Anderson) or any other SEM figures for that matter. There were also some idiotic fans who abused others for insulting Kean. Indeed the likes of that idiot Elwell who punched Glen Mullan didn't do so without prompting. I certainly believe that was encouraged by figures at the club as those documents alleged. I don't however believe Anderson is involved with the club now or in the past few seasons. The Kentaro lawsuit makes no sense otherwise unless people claim it was all a smokescreen. I certainly don't believe that is the case.

People say why else do Venkys keep making bad decisions unless its a conspiracy devised by likes of Anderson? Well look at Henning Berg and the compensation issue for example. Venkys employed the incompetent idiot Shaw thanks to Agnew and he completely fucked up with Berg's contract. Nobody made money from that except Berg so what can you call it other than sheer stupidity? Unless of course Berg made some secret scam with Shaw/Anderson and gave them a cut of the compensation. Singh signed a load of Portuguese players on dodgy looking deals (though he helped get rid of Kean so most people gloss over this) and I very much doubt that had anything to do with Anderson. Indeed Singh was the one who booted out his son. I believe that from 2012 onwards Anderson had nothing to do with the club (I don't dispute he was a cancer at the club in 2010 and 2011) aside from any legal issues that developed in the Venkys/Kentaro court case. Indeed there was a power struggle waged between 3 complete idiots. It might not have been as bad if any of them actually had a clue! It was humiliating to see such pathetic figures squabbling over club issues. It was so beneath a club of this history and stature it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

[Drog]

Why would Anderson stick around helping the venkymob and sleeping on the office floor at Brockhall once the Prem money ran out?

 

[Drog]

The cotton industry was on the decline way before the 60's. Even in late 1800s the chamber of commerce warned there was too much reliance on cotton. Of course Rovers had Lawrence Cotton before Jack was even born but the club didn't collapse after he died. It didn't win a league title but the FA Cup in 1928 and consistently in the top 2 divisions including a title challenge in the 60s. Unfortunately the club made a series of errors starting with the FA Cup final ticket problems which many fans never forgave the club for. Everything possible went wrong on the day itself with Dougan handing in a transfer request. Also you may not have heard this but Dave Whelan broke his leg. Then the board sold Pickering which older fans blame on the board being total cheapskates. That seems to be the one that truly put the club on the path to relegation. Clayton and Douglas both retired in the late 60s and it was difficult for any club to replace them. In the 70s and 80s attendances were down everywhere. The club had 4 years in the third division (as it was called then) and you can't say the board being so tight had nothing to do with that.

Your version of BRFC history appears to be honest but somewhat lacking in fact and has totally omitted the effects of the abolishment of the maximum wage in the early / mid 60's which were catastrophic for every town / small club like ourselves.

As for the Cup Final.... The theory of the team bus running over a Black Cat applies. Certainly the ticketing etc went wrong but Derek Dougan stunned the club by putting in a transfer request on the day of the Final and worse still he declared himself fit to play when it was obvious from the first minute that he was crocked. Whelans broken leg midway through the match effectively left us with 9.5 players as there were no subs allowed whatsoever in those days. Just like after the Full Members Cup lots of people went to Wembley and never went to Ewood again. Twisted logic as reaching a Cup Final is a notable feat in itself but to boot out in the quarter finals Burnley, the then League Champions, neighbours and intense rivals to boot still couldn't cement the fan base.

 

[Vinjay]

Your version of BRFC history appears to be honest but somewhat lacking in fact and has totally omitted the effects of the abolishment of the maximum wage in the early / mid 60's which were catastrophic for every town

I didn't ignore the maximum wage but the board were still cheapskates. From what I've heard the players were promised a pay increase (shortly before Pickering left) then the board went back on their word. My impression is Pickering wasn't exactly being greedy. A few years ago he said "I only left in the end because the club wouldn't give me a raise of a couple of quid. It was absurd". Maybe over time things may have declined but it was clearly somewhat self inflicted with asinine decisions like this. No wonder attendances went down as football's image declined plus other general lifestyle changes. Also it was the start of the demographic changes with Asians moving into the town and showing no interest in the club.

In the same article Pickering also mentioned Jack Walker and remarked "its a shame what his family have done since". This was in 2011. He wasn't just referring to the sale either as he noted the previous 6 years. Indeed it was 04-05 when it became clear to me what they were doing and he obviously noticed the same thing.

If FUP is eradicated altogether (and the idiots finally go) good things may eventually happen. Gate money does not mean as much these days and a big club of this stature (regardless of what you think that's what it is) will always have interest. Of course its much harder to sell outside the top flight which concerned me while the club were being starved under the trustees. That however does not mean its impossible.

 

[Drog]

I didn't ignore the maximum wage but the board were still cheapskates. From what I've heard the players were promised a pay increase (shortly before Pickering left) then the board went back on their word. My impression is Pickering wasn't exactly being greedy. A few years ago he said "I only left in the end because the club wouldn't give me a raise of a couple of quid. It was absurd". Maybe over time things may have declined but it was clearly somewhat self inflicted with asinine decisions like this. No wonder attendances went down as football's image declined plus other general lifestyle changes. Also it was the start of the demographic changes with Asians moving into the town and showing no interest in the club.

Now I've no idea of the background as I'd only be about 10 but in hindsight maybe the board, who btw were made up of wealthy but not fabulously rich businessmen saw cashing in on the British record transfer fee for Pick (from Everton who then were as comparatively as rich as us in the early 90's via John Moores / Littlewoods pools) as a way of paying more wages to keep the other players happy. Smash an egg rather than drop the whole basket. Rem too we also had Andy McEvoy who was arguably the better striker anyway. Effectively it was 'same as' it is now. 63000 on a locked out OT every other week compared awfully with our 15000 ish on a good day. Nowadays the 90k from media just makes it worse for clubs out of the Prem.

 

[Alan]

Now I've no idea of the background as I'd only be about 10 but in hindsight maybe the board, who btw were made up of wealthy but not fabulously rich businessmen saw cashing in on the British record transfer fee for Pick (from Everton who then were as comparatively as rich as us in the early 90's via John Moores / Littlewoods pools) as a way of paying more wages to keep the other players happy. Smash an egg rather than drop the whole basket. Rem too we also had Andy McEvoy who was arguably the better striker anyway. Effectively it was 'same as' it is now. 63000 on a locked out OT every other week compared awfully with our 15000 ish on a good day. Nowadays the 90k from media just makes it worse for clubs out of the Prem.

I am old enough to remember it though and Pickering was sold because we had no money and needed to pay the wages. The board were not vastly rich but did care about the club. I hated it but saw the reason for it.

 

[Drog]

Seems my logic is sound in this case then Al. Thank you.

 

[Vinjay]

Well I'm going by Pickering's view that the board were absurdly cheap.

 

[Drog]

Like Fred Pick was an expert in Business / Accountancy eh Vinjay?