At War

[ABBEY]

So trumps puppets have danced to the puppet masters tune.
So may as ordered our bombs to bomb Syria. No discussion, no proof and no thought of our country being nuked by Putin.
She's one evil bitch.

 

[Drog]

A taj melodramatic there Abbey and I don't wish to under play the seriousness of the situation but 'military action' does not constitute a declaration of War.

I must say Trumps speech this morning was obviously written by a diplomat for once. They must have disabled his twitter account on his phone. He'd be better advised to do this all the time.
I'm not at all keen an such events re: my post above but if Assads been warned about the indiscriminate use of chemical weapons against civilians (and by their very nature it can only be such) and is still taking the piss (just because he's mates with the big kid in the playground and think's that he's untouchable) what else can you do? It appears that the bombing was carried out in a manner which minimized collateral damage and casualties to civilian population,
No doubt Putin can't lose face now and will do a tit for tat by nuking London. Lets all thank the Lord that there are no English people there.

 

[ABBEY]

theres lots of English people in London...and im melodramatic. How dictater May can do this without parliament is disgusting.

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

We've been engaged in military action in Syria for years now Abbey. So we've gone from bombing IS to bombing Assad, either way we're trying to keep a lid on that pit of vipers and stop more civilians getting killed.

In terms of the scorn for following Trump's lead, I know the left in this country have a political prejudice against America, but not taking their lead in international diplomacy is extremely reckless. Their military budget is over 4 times ours, France's and Germany's combined. We are little fish these days, Saudi Arabia has a bigger defence budget than us.

So if we want to be in a position where Russia and China don't push us around at will, we side with America. Putin was probably laughing his ass off at our tough talk to the spy poisoning until America got involved. We get zero respect without their backing so when they want our backing we give it. Only a numpty like Corbyn would wreck such an important alliance.

 

[Drog]

theres lots of English people in London...and im melodramatic. How dictater May can do this without parliament is disgusting.

Last thing one does in any contest is tell your opponents what you are going to do and when, or indeed give them any clues for that matter. All that does is put our servicemen and the success of the mission at greater risk. Surprise being a key element.

 

[Drog]

Meanwhile Israel are shooting unarmed protesters with weapons sold to them by us, but no one bats an eyelid.

The palestinians only have themselves to blame for 'electing' a terrorist organisation to power. Hamas IS a terrorist organisation and recognised as such by most of the world including the US and the Eu. Self declared anti- semitic and anti zionist. An organisation that furthers it's political agenda by firing rockets into Israel indiscriminately from hospital roofs and school playgrounds with the sole intention that when Israel responds with hi tech missiles many innocents are killed which will attract worldwide condemnation from people who have been duped like yourself and Corbyn. Tellingly the Egyptians have also closed their border with palestine because they recognise Hamas as a terrorist organisation too. Why don't they demonstrate at that end too?

This is part of their ridiculous charter. "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree (evidently a certain kind of tree), would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Read that and tell me how can anybody or any nation deal sensibly with the moonstruck numpty leaders of hamas whose declared aim, repeated time and again is to wipe the state of Israel and it's citizens off the map?

 

[Drog]

It's cause and effect. When did two wrongs ever make a right? If the palestinians get shit off the israeli's it's because of their own actions in electing a terrorist organisation sworn to destroying the state of Israel. They could always vote hamas out at the next election of course and see if the Israeli's, the egyptians, US,EU and indeed most of the world become more responsive to their situation.... if they dare. Hamas was given the chance for help from the west if they renounced violence and accepted the state of Israel. they wouldn't so now they are reaping the benefits of their actions. Another thing amo Hamas take over from Fatah was in itself hardly bloodless was it?
It might make sense if the palestinians could just realise that most official governments would have their teeth pulled before they'd ever hold much truck with terrorist organisations.

 

[yoda]

Meanwhile Israel are shooting unarmed protesters with weapons sold to them by us, but no one bats an eyelid.

Can we apply that logic to the good old US of A

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

This is part of their ridiculous charter. "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree (evidently a certain kind of tree), would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

Bloody hell, is that out of the Koran? That's right up there with Mohammed's flying horse. You'd get more sense out of a psychiatric hospital patient on a strict magic mushroom diet.

I take Amo's point that Israel isn't blameless but I certainly don't see it as 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. Israel has been surrounded by enemies obsessed with it's destruction for over half a century, as well as now having to deal with Islamic terrorism from within (18% of Israelis are Muslim).

I mean look at the latest uncovered project from the victims of Palestine:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43775110

Anyway I'm off to cut down my Gharkad tree in case it's failing to tell me a Jew is stood behind it.

 

[Drog]

Israel disabled the tunnel over the weekend, according to the military. "We filled the tunnel with material that renders it useless for a very long period of time," Col Conricus said.

 

[Drog]

Gaza: on the brink of a bloodbath?

Gazans protesting at the border
Hashem Zakout was meant to be volunteering at his local hospital in Gaza last weekend, said Donald Macintyre in The Observer. Instead, the 24-year-old ended up in casualty himself, after being shot in the knee while throwing stones at Israeli troops across the border. He is one of hundreds of Gazans to have been wounded since the launch last month of a six-week border protest known as the “Great Return March”. The protests are designed to raise awareness of the harshness of life in the coastal enclave, and to support Gazans’ demands to return to their ancestral homes in what is now Israel. Zakout is among the luckier protesters. More than 30 others have been killed by Israeli snipers, among them a 14-year-old boy and a Palestinian video journalist.

The fact that the crowds of Gazan protesters are “largely if not entirely” unarmed cuts little ice with Israel, said Hussein Ibish in Foreign Policy (Washington DC). What it fears – and what Hamas, the increasingly unpopular militant group that has controlled Gaza since 2007, hopes – is that “the border is somehow breached and large numbers of young men cross over into what used to be their country”. Israeli officials warn that such an event could precipitate a “bloodbath”. But even if the border isn’t breached, Hamas stands to gain from these protests, as they’re distracting attention from its own mismanagement of Gaza, which has contributed to the wretched conditions of the enclave. “Unemployment is chronic. Hunger is rampant. Water is undrinkable. Electricity is available for only two to four hours per day.”

Hamas appears to have “changed its tactics, if not its ideology”, said The Economist. After a decade of building up its “military muscle”, it has recognised the limitations of this approach. Israel’s Iron Dome missile-defence system intercepts cross-border missiles, and it regularly destroys Hamas’s tunnels. Rather than launching a full-blown conflict with Israel, and risk being blamed by Gazans for further worsening their plight, Hamas is hoping to advance its interests through mass demonstrations. Hamas may be orchestrating the current protests, said Patrick Cockburn in The Independent, but it didn’t instigate them. The original impetus came from ordinary Gazans who are fed up with the impossibility of living under an Israeli and Egyptian blockade, and with their own “self seeking” leaders. “The most dangerous aspect of the situation in terms of its potential for violence may be that nobody is really in charge.”
The Week

 

[ABBEY]

So Dick Tater May didn't do as Trump told her

 

[Drog]

So Dick Tater May didn't do as Trump told her

Whose contradicted your post?

 

[ABBEY]

the internet.

 

[Steve Moss]

Can we apply that logic to the good old US of A

That would be nice, but logic is only of value if dealing with logical people.

Applying logic to ISIS and the like will only get us killed. They are on a mission from God (or the Devil, depends on your world view) and won’t be deterred.

As to Assad, I think he’ll keep gassing fellow Syrians when and if he can get away with it. It’s a tool to create fear which will, he thinks, help him retain power. The trick is to make him fear the consequences of using that tool.

This weekend’s bombings were too restrained, too logical. He’ll take some time to evaluate, but it won’t change his behavior long run.

Iran, Turkey and Russia are entirely different kettles of fish.

I would love to slash military spending, pay off debt and build American infrastructure. That’s logical. But until the rest of the world steps up to deal with these problems, we’re in a Catch 22 situation. Part of me thinks we should pull out anyway. Maybe Europe will wake up once the Caliphate is at the gates of Vienna (again). Maybe not.