Lies, damn lies and statistics? Or........

[1SimonGarner]

are we indeed punching well above our weight? The tables below list the positions of all 92 league clubs in both annual wage bills and average home attendances, both very good indicators of the size and financial power of a football club. Most clubs are within 5-10 places in the football pyramid that you would expect when you take these two things into account, some as you'll see are over achieving quite a bit - including The Rovers - and some are inevitably under achieving.

Rovers, out of the 92 league clubs, are currently joint 3rd with Brentford in the over achieving table, sitting 19 places above where the club realistically should expect to be with the crowds we get and the wages we can offer - which should be an indicator as to the class of player you have and can recruit.

Anyway it made interesting reading to me and maybe shows just how difficult a job any new manager has in getting the club to live up to the fans expectations of where we are as a club. The Walker years were great, the 20 years before and the 20 or so years since, Blackburn Rovers was and is a drastically different football club. As BAWH always bangs on about, maybe it's about time a large proportion of our fan base came to terms with it.

Pos	Team	Wage Bill	Pos	Team	Av Att	Pos	Expected Position	Pos	Actual Position	+/- Pos
1	Man United	£ 222,984,000.00	1	Man United	74,133	1	Man United	1	Arsenal	+4
2	Chelsea	£ 169,720,000.00	2	West Ham	62,449	2	Tottenham	2	Man City	+1
3	Man City	£ 163,060,000.00	3	Tottenham	61.644	=3	Liverpool	3	Newcastle	+6
4	Liverpool	£ 141,782,000.00	4	Arsenal	60,135	=3	Man City	4	Tottenham	-2
5	Tottenham	£ 101,344,000.00	5	Liverpool	53,271	5	Arsenal	5	Man Utd	-4
6	Arsenal	£ 85,490,000.00	6	Man City	53,152	6	West Ham	6	Liverpool	-3
7	Leicester	£ 78,780,000.00	7	Newcastle	52,177	7	Chelsea	7	Brighton	+7
8	Aston Villa	£ 75,232,000.00	8	Aston Villa	41,681	8	Aston Villa	8	Chelsea	-1
9	West Ham	£ 70,160,000.00	9	Chelsea	39,901	9	Newcastle	9	Fulham	+16
10	Newcastle	£ 62,610,000.00	10	Everton	39,209	10	Leicester	10	Brentford	+19
11	Crystal Palace	£ 59,180,000.00	11	Sunderland	37,027	11	Everton	11	Crystal Palace	+3
12	Everton	£ 43,120,000.00	12	Leeds	36,441	12	Wolves	12	Aston Villa	-4
13	Wolves	£ 38,310,000.00	13	Leicester	31,630	13	Southampton	13	Leicester	-3
14	Fulham	£ 37,610,000.00	14	Wolves	31,619	=14	Brighton	14	Bournemouth	+18
15	Southampton	£ 35,380,000.00	15	Brighton	31,425	=14	Crystal Palace	15	Leeds	+1
16	Bournemouth	£ 32,044,000.00	16	Southampton	30,747	=16	Leeds	16	West Ham	-10
17	Notts Forest	£ 28,590,000.00	17	Notts Forest	29,040	=16	Notts Forest	17	Everton	-6
18	Brighton	£ 28,340,000.00	18	Sheff Utd	28,552	18	Norwich	18	Notts Forest	-2
19	Watford	£ 22,210,000.00	19	Derby	26,926	19	Sheff Utd	19	Southampton	-6
20	Norwich	£ 20,130,000.00	20	Norwich	26,859	20	Sunderland	20	Wolves	-8
21	Burnley	£ 19,470,000.00	21	Ipswich	25,533	21	Watford	21	Burnley	+2
22	Leeds	£ 17,300,000.00	22	Crystal Palace	24,530	22	West Brom	22	Sheff Utd	-3
23	West Brom	£ 15,850,000.00	23	Middlesbrough	24,464	=23	Burnley	23	ROVERS	+19
24	Brentford	£ 15,240,000.00	24	Sheff Wed	23,867	=23	Middlebrough	24	Watford	-3
25	Sheff Utd	£ 12,640,000.00	25	Fulham	23,221	=25	Fulham	25	Norwich	-7
26	Stoke	£ 10,610,000.00	26	West Brom	22,067	=25	Stoke	26	QPR	+10
27	Bristol City	£ 10,540,000.00	27	Stoke	20,450	27	Bristol City	27	Preston	+9
28	Middlesbrough	£ 9,810,000.00	28	Bristol City	19,661	28	Sheff Wed	28	Birmingham	+5
29	Birmingham	£ 9,660,000.00	29	Watford	19,300	29	Brentford	29	Millwall	+12
30	Reading	£ 9,170,000.00	30	Burnley	19,157	=30	Derby	30	Swansea	+4
31	QPR	£ 8,700,000.00	31	Huddersfield	18,591	=30	Ipswich	31	Reading	+9
32	Swansea	£ 8,310,000.00	32	Portsmouth	18,197	32	Bournemouth	32	Sunderland	-12
33	Sheff Wed	£ 6,720,000.00	33	Bolton	18,061	33	Birmingham	33	Middlesbrough	-10
34	Preston	£ 6,670,000.00	34	Coventry	17,888	=34	Huddersfield	34	Coventry	+5
35	Sunderland	£ 6,010,000.00	35	Bradford	17,367	=34	Swansea	35	Luton	+11
36	Millwall	£ 5,860,000.00	36	Cardiff	17,131	=36	Preston	36	West Brom	-14
37	Luton	£ 5,510,000.00	37	Brentford	17,037	=36	QPR	37	Stoke	-12
38	ROVERS	£ 5,500,000.00	38	Hull	17,001	38	Cardiff	38	Bristol City	-11
39	Cardiff	£ 5,490,000.00	39	Swansea	16,561	39	Coventry	39	Rotherham	+13
40	Huddersfield	£ 5,210,000.00	40	Preston	16,007	40	Reading	40	Cardiff	-2
41	Wigan	£ 5,020,000.00	41	Birmingham	15,414	41	Millwall	41	Hull	+3
42	Coventry	£ 4,780,000.00	42	Plymouth	14,904	42	ROVERS	42	Blackpool	+4
43	Ipswich	£ 4,710,000.00	43	QPR	14,318	43	Portsmouth	43	Wigan	+3
44	Blackpool	£ 4,400,000.00	44	ROVERS	13,954	44	Hull	44	Huddersfield	-10
45	Derby	£ 4,360,000.00	45	Millwall	13,841	45	Bolton	45	Plymouth	+6
46	Hull	£ 4,080,000.00	46	Blackpool	13,610	=46	Blackpool	46	Ipswich	-16
47	Peterborough	£ 3,220,000.00	47	Reading	13,255	=46	Luton	47	Sheff Wed	-19
48	Port Vale	£ 3,110,000.00	48	Charlton	13,110	=46	Wigan	48	Barnsley	+1
49	Wycombe	£ 3,010,000.00	49	Wigan	11,772	49	Barnsley	49	Bolton	-5
50	Charlton	£ 2,800,000.00	50	Rotherham	10,286	50	Charlton	50	Derby	-20
51	Portsmouth	£ 2,700,000.00	51	Bournemouth	10,269	51	Plymouth	51	Wycombe	+8
52	Rotherham	£ 2,650,000.00	52	Barnsley	9,949	52	Rotherhan	52	Peterborough	+1
53	Barnsley	£ 2,470,000.00	53	Luton	9,786	53	Peterborough	53	Bristol Rovers	+3
54	Bolton	£ 2,340,000.00	54	Swindon	8,769	54	Port Vale	54	Portsmouth	-11
55	Oxford	£ 2,310,000.00	55	Bristol Rovers	8,703	55	Bradford	55	Shrewsbury	+7
56	Grimsby	£ 2,210,000.00	56	Stockport	8,615	56	Bristol Rovers	56	Port Vale	-2
57	Plymouth	£ 2,010,000.00	57	MK Dons	8,344	57	Oxford Utd	57	Exeter	+10
58	Shrewsbury	£ 2,000,000.00	58	Lincoln	8,318	58	Lincoln	58	Lincoln	0
59	Bristol Rovers	£ 1,970,000.00	59	Peterborough	8,300	59	Wycombe	59	Oxford Utd	-2
60	Colchester	£ 1,970,000.00	60	Port Vale	8,287	60	Grimsby	60	Fleetwood	+12
61	Lincoln	£ 1,880,000.00	61	Oxford Utd	7,800	61	MK Dons	61	Cheltenham	+20
62	Doncaster	£ 1,640,000.00	62	L Orient	7,497	62	Shrewsbury	62	Charlton	-12
63	Mansfield	£ 1,570,000.00	63	Wimbledon	7,472	=63	Doncaster	63	Accrington	+23
64	Burton	£ 1,550,000.00	64	Exeter	6,679	=63	Mansfield	64	Cambridge	+4
65	Mk Dons	£ 1,480,000.00	65	Grimsby	6,590	=65	L Orient	65	Forest Green	+14
66	Fleetwood	£ 1,420,000.00	66	Mansfield	6,489	=65	Swindon	66	MK Dons	-5
67	Salford	£ 1,180,000.00	67	Doncaster	6,314	67	Exeter	67	Burton	+4
68	Cambridge	£ 1,170,000.00	68	Tranmere	6,186	68	Cambridge	68	Morecambe	+4
69	Forest Green	£ 1,170,000.00	69	Shrewsbury	6,128	69	Wimbledon	69	L Orient	-4
70	L Orient	£ 1,170,000.00	70	Cambridge	6,034	70	Colchester	70	Stevenage	+13
71	Exeter	£ 1,160,000.00	71	Wycombe	5,429	71	Burton	71	Northampton	+12
72	Gillingham	£ 1,160,000.00	72	Carlisle	5,370	=72	Fleetwood	72	Swindon	-7
73	Morecambe	£ 1,140,000.00	73	Walsall	5,200	=72	Morecambe	73	Mansfield	-10
74	Harrogate	£ 1,130,000.00	74	Northampton	5,181	=72	Stockport	74	Barrow	+16
75	Bradford	£ 1,100,000.00	75	Morecambe	4,598	75	Gillingham	75	Carlisle	+2
76	Stevenage	£ 920,000.00	76	Hartlepool	4,523	76	Tranmere	76	Bradford	-21
77	Crawley	£ 870,000.00	77	Gillingham	4,378	=77	Carlisle	77	Salford	0
78	Swindon	£ 790,000.00	78	Cheltenham	4,086	=77	Salford	78	Doncaster	-15
79	Wimbledon	£ 790,000.00	79	Newport	4,030	79	Forest Green	79	Walsall	+1
80	Accrington	£ 785,000.00	80	Crewe	3,852	80	Walsall	80	Wimbledon	-11
81	Newport	£ 780,000.00	81	Barrow	3,431	=81	Cheltenham	81	Stockport	-9
82	Cheltenham	£ 760,000.00	82	Fleetwood	3,378	=81	Newport	82	Grimsby	-22
83	Carlisle	£ 760,000.00	83	Burton	3,278	=83	Northampton	83	Tranmere	-7
84	Crewe	£ 720,000.00	84	Colchester	3,220	=83	Stevenage	84	Sutton	+7
85	Tranmere	£ 720,000.00	85	Accrington	3,201	85	Crewe	85	Crewe	0
86	Walsall	£ 710,000.00	86	Stevenage	3,095	86	Accrington	86	Newport	-5
87	Sutton	£ 670,000.00	87	Forest Green	3,088	=87	Crawley	87	Crawley	0
88	Northampton	£ 610,000.00	88	Salford	2,926	=87	Harrogate	88	Harrogate	-1
89	Barrow	£ 600,000.00	89	Crawley	2,894	=87	Hartlepool	89	Rochdale	+3
90	Hartlepool	£ 520,000.00	90	Rochdale	2,858	90	Barrow	90	Hartlepool	-1
91	Rochdale	£ 510,000.00	91	Sutton	2,842	91	Sutton	91	Colchester	-21
92	Stockport	£ 500,000.00	92	Harrogate	2,015	92	Rochdale	92	Gillingham	-17

 

[Drog]

Some eye openers there.

 

[steve w]

Wow
That must have taken hours
Great effort - Thanks
And when you look at it from this perspective we are doing great
It will be really interesting to see how the Leicester fans react if they tumble down a division (or even two) - I do believe a lot of our apathy is due to having sat at the top of the top table. And lets not forget we had a big influx of glory hunters (inc my sister and best mate - who dont even check the score now!!)
We that have come all the way, get it, but most born post 1985 just dont, and their expectations fuel the apathy

 

[1SimonGarner]

Perfectly put Steve, if your earliest experiences of the Rovers was during the glory years, it's naturally going to skew your view of what type of club we are. We're a town club trying to compete with big city clubs with far larger catchment areas - and that's just for the chance of getting to the Premier where we'd be even more out of our depth.

Without a rich benefactor it's a massive achievement BUT it's very possible, Burnley (yuk) and Brentford have proven that. So it's more than fine to dream and strive, to be expectant however is a different matter and we as fans should never have that mindset.

It took me 4 hours on Saturday to do the spreadsheet (no racing, no football, no cricket ) but it was worth it.As Drog says there were some real eye openers, none more so than the fact that Ronaldo was on 550 grand a week at Man Utd, the same as some clubs YEARLY wage budgets. Talk about have's and have not's, the gap has never been bigger and it's getting bigger every year.

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

Brilliant work 1SG and yeah this is exactly my argument to defend Mowbray and JDT. When you're 19 places above where you should be in the football pyramid, the joint 3rd most over-achieving club in the top 4 divisions, and a good proportion of fans still aren't happy, the words "delusional" and "entitled" sound harsh but are all I can use to describe it.

Only query I've got is on the wage bills. £5.5m doesn't sound right for Rovers. Total club salaries (as shown on the attached) were £25.7m for 2020/21, I'd have thought playing staff would be about 90% of that. Similarly Preston's were £22.9m but your table has £6.67m.

 

[1SimonGarner]

I used Capology.com and went off their annual payroll that is listed at the top of every club. Taking Arsenal as an example, their annual payroll is listed at £ 85,490,000 but if you look further down the page where they list every players wages the total is listed at £ 100,360,000.

I've used the same figure off the website for every club so it should generally be a good indicator if not absolutely spot on.

 

[1SimonGarner]

Just as an aside, if you go onto the Rovers page on that website, it lists Dolan as being on 500 quid a week or somat so, yes some of the figures may be dubious but I think overall it gives a good indication of what each club is paying their players on average.

EDIT George Hirst 17 grand a week - yikes.

 

[Drog]

If you look at Leicester's wage bill v I come by and attendance you'll see they are well overpaid. Hirst being an example.

 

[Old Darwen Blue]

How are Salford able to pay a wage bill of £1.18 million on crowds of less than 3000? Someone should ask big gob Gary Neville.

 

[Drog]

Don't you know ODB? It's the usual fall-back suicidal economic policies of the left.

 

[Old Darwen Blue]

Are they excused from FFP?