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    Championship

The next Rovers manager

Drog

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Marlow Rover said:
4 of those players you listed were brought in by Bowyer with limited spending, and all sold for a profit. A slightly different approach to Mowbray splashing £12m - £13m on two players - Bowyer probably reached £5m in transfer spend throughout his time at Rovers, with a healthy return of £18m or so based on your calculations above. Equally, Mowbray did superbly well with Armstrong and is likely to do the same with Brereton, and deserves praise for that.

In terms of Hanley - he was an academy player who Bowyer managed to tie down to a new 5-year deal. Very similar to Lenihan who would probably attract similar money (probably slightly less) if he wasn't out of contract this summer.

In terms of Rhodes, Dunn, Murphy, Etuhu, Best, Nuno Gomes, Formica, Goodwillie, Orr etc etc etc etc.... only Rhodes was any use to Bowyer, the rest were either past it or an absolute joke to start with. We all know Rovers were a basket case then, let's not pretend Bowyer benefitted from our insanely high wage structure. Would be wiser to recognise that Bowyer got rid of the deadwood and built a young, likeable squad with good sell-on potential. His overhaul was actually far greater than Mowbray's in terms of squad.

I maintain that Mowbray NEVER had to sell anyone he didn't want to, except Armstrong - look at our outgoings in 5 years... Which of those do you think Mowbray wanted to keep at the club? He didn't even want Raya to stay on. 15 on that list (out of 30) were TM signings, and a further 6 (of the existing squad when TM arrived) signed a contract during his time as manager. Mahoney didn't sign because he got a better offer from Bournemouth, but the offer was there.

So 21 of the 30 outgoings in 5 years, TM made the decision to sign or extend their contracts.... that's fine, his decision, but let's not pretend he's had his back to the wall and has been forced to break up his squads and start again on a pittance. Two, maybe three (bolded) of those players went for a transfer fee - the rest were free transfers or left without a club.

Jason Steele
Hope Akpan
Jason Lowe
Anthony Stokes
Conor Manhoney (end of contract)
Liam Feeney
Elliott Ward
Gordon Greer
Wes Brown
Paul Caddis (his signing)
Peter Whittingham (his signing)
David Raya
Ben Gladwin (his signing)
Paul Downing (his signing)
Jayson Leutwiler (his signing)
Danny Guthrie (his signing)
Derrick Williams (extended contract under TM)
Danny Graham (extended contract under TM)
Dominic Samuel (his signing)
Joe Nuttall (his signing) ((extended contract under TM))
Richard Smallwood (his signing) ((extended contract under TM))
Craig Conway (extended contract under TM)
Jack Rodwell (his signing)
Adam Armstrong (his signing) - Great profit
Lewis Holtby (his signing)
Sam Hart (his signing)
Stewart Downing (his signing) ((extended contract under TM))
Elliott Bennett (extended contract under TM)
Amari'i Bell (his signing)
Charlie Mulgrew (extended contract under TM)
Corry Evans (extended contract under TM)

Reflecting on Mowbray's time as manager - Until the spectacular implosion of last season he'd done a very good job of steadying the club and solidifying us as a Championship team, not forgetting the fairly regular run of 1 win in 8 etc etc. Last season, with the squad he had at his disposal, a 30-goal striker, Harvey Elliott et al, we blew up spectactularly. This season, 8th Feb 10 points clear of 7th place, we did it all over again.

We were punching above our weight in 2nd, but we got there on what was frankly an extraordinary run. Even mid-table form would have seen us in the play-offs from there on in.... Cue 3 wins and 5 draws in the 17 games before promotion was mathematically impossible, failing to score in 11 of those. Extrapolate that over a season and it's more or less 35 - 37 points... a couple more than Derby (who were already deducted 21 points), sat in 23rd in the league. That's how bad we've been since we beat Boro at home!

I can see the argument as to why it might be time for a change, even understanding the enormous risk that comes with letting these people pick the next manager!
Click to expand...
Well researched Marlow. Would that everyone put that amount of effort and thought into posts.... myself included! My point re: Bowyer and ex Academy boss Barr for the Manager's job might not look so daft to some now.
 
Old Darwen Blue

Old Darwen Blue

Prediction Champion 2021, 2022 & 2023
I can assure you the idea of Bowyer as next manager is indeed daft. Now Barr though…
 
blueandwhitehalves

blueandwhitehalves

Senior Member
Marlow Rover said:
4 of those players you listed were brought in by Bowyer with limited spending, and all sold for a profit. A slightly different approach to Mowbray splashing £12m - £13m on two players - Bowyer probably reached £5m in transfer spend throughout his time at Rovers, with a healthy return of £18m or so based on your calculations above. Equally, Mowbray did superbly well with Armstrong and is likely to do the same with Brereton, and deserves praise for that.

In terms of Hanley - he was an academy player who Bowyer managed to tie down to a new 5-year deal. Very similar to Lenihan who would probably attract similar money (probably slightly less) if he wasn't out of contract this summer.

In terms of Rhodes, Dunn, Murphy, Etuhu, Best, Nuno Gomes, Formica, Goodwillie, Orr etc etc etc etc.... only Rhodes was any use to Bowyer, the rest were either past it or an absolute joke to start with. We all know Rovers were a basket case then, let's not pretend Bowyer benefitted from our insanely high wage structure. Would be wiser to recognise that Bowyer got rid of the deadwood and built a young, likeable squad with good sell-on potential. His overhaul was actually far greater than Mowbray's in terms of squad.

I maintain that Mowbray NEVER had to sell anyone he didn't want to, except Armstrong - look at our outgoings in 5 years... Which of those do you think Mowbray wanted to keep at the club? He didn't even want Raya to stay on. 15 on that list (out of 30) were TM signings, and a further 6 (of the existing squad when TM arrived) signed a contract during his time as manager. Mahoney didn't sign because he got a better offer from Bournemouth, but the offer was there.

So 21 of the 30 outgoings in 5 years, TM made the decision to sign or extend their contracts.... that's fine, his decision, but let's not pretend he's had his back to the wall and has been forced to break up his squads and start again on a pittance. Two, maybe three (bolded) of those players went for a transfer fee - the rest were free transfers or left without a club.

Jason Steele
Hope Akpan
Jason Lowe
Anthony Stokes
Conor Manhoney (end of contract)
Liam Feeney
Elliott Ward
Gordon Greer
Wes Brown
Paul Caddis (his signing)
Peter Whittingham (his signing)
David Raya
Ben Gladwin (his signing)
Paul Downing (his signing)
Jayson Leutwiler (his signing)
Danny Guthrie (his signing)
Derrick Williams (extended contract under TM)
Danny Graham (extended contract under TM)
Dominic Samuel (his signing)
Joe Nuttall (his signing) ((extended contract under TM))
Richard Smallwood (his signing) ((extended contract under TM))
Craig Conway (extended contract under TM)
Jack Rodwell (his signing)
Adam Armstrong (his signing) - Great profit
Lewis Holtby (his signing)
Sam Hart (his signing)
Stewart Downing (his signing) ((extended contract under TM))
Elliott Bennett (extended contract under TM)
Amari'i Bell (his signing)
Charlie Mulgrew (extended contract under TM)
Corry Evans (extended contract under TM)

Reflecting on Mowbray's time as manager - Until the spectacular implosion of last season he'd done a very good job of steadying the club and solidifying us as a Championship team, not forgetting the fairly regular run of 1 win in 8 etc etc. Last season, with the squad he had at his disposal, a 30-goal striker, Harvey Elliott et al, we blew up spectactularly. This season, 8th Feb 10 points clear of 7th place, we did it all over again.

We were punching above our weight in 2nd, but we got there on what was frankly an extraordinary run. Even mid-table form would have seen us in the play-offs from there on in.... Cue 3 wins and 5 draws in the 17 games before promotion was mathematically impossible, failing to score in 11 of those. Extrapolate that over a season and it's more or less 35 - 37 points... a couple more than Derby (who were already deducted 21 points), sat in 23rd in the league. That's how bad we've been since we beat Boro at home!

I can see the argument as to why it might be time for a change, even understanding the enormous risk that comes with letting these people pick the next manager!
Click to expand...
Yeah fair enough, I agree Bowyer was very good in the transfer market. I don’t think the Hanley/Lenihan comparison is fair though. The club decided to get the former on a long contract and let the latter other run out, which is a good example of my point on what Mowbray was operating under.

Bowyer definitely benefitted from our high wage squad. How many times these days do we say the Championship is difficult because parachute payment clubs have double/triple our revenue? That was us under Bowyer. There should have been every expectation we made the play-offs under him, just as there should be no expectation we made it under Mowbray.

That first season Bowyer had Robinson a 33-year old former England keeper, Orr who’d won the Championship the season before, Givet a 32-year old former Champions League winner, Dunn a 33-year old former England midfielder, Rhodes a 30-goal a season striker, Pedersen a 32-year old legend, Olsson/Dann/Hanley who’ve spent almost all their careers in the PL, Etuhu 30-years old and last 5 years in the PL.

That was a quality squad and I’ve mentioned a lot of their ages because the really top players weren’t geriatrics, they should have been capable of promoting us. Mowbray wasn't operating on the same planet as Bowyer, and yet he’s finished with 1 point less this season than Bowyer did with that 2012/13 squad.

You keep talking about Mowbray not having to sell anyone, well that's because the squad was gutted before he got there. Another eerie comparison to Allardyce. Hughes in charge, gut the squad, crap new manager Ince, Allardyce repair job with a lower wage budget. Bowyer in charge, gut the squad, crap new manager Coyle, Mowbray repair job with a lower wage budget. Mowbray hasn't signed a player for £1m+ since summer 2019. What he did this season was incredible, and I'm pretty certain that'll be demonstrated by bottom half finishes in the next couple of years.
 
M

Marlow Rover

Senior Member
blueandwhitehalves said:
Yeah fair enough, I agree Bowyer was very good in the transfer market. I don’t think the Hanley/Lenihan comparison is fair though. The club decided to get the former on a long contract and let the latter other run out, which is a good example of my point on what Mowbray was operating under.

Bowyer definitely benefitted from our high wage squad. How many times these days do we say the Championship is difficult because parachute payment clubs have double/triple our revenue? That was us under Bowyer. There should have been every expectation we made the play-offs under him, just as there should be no expectation we made it under Mowbray.

That first season Bowyer had Robinson a 33-year old former England keeper, Orr who’d won the Championship the season before, Givet a 32-year old former Champions League winner, Dunn a 33-year old former England midfielder, Rhodes a 30-goal a season striker, Pedersen a 32-year old legend, Olsson/Dann/Hanley who’ve spent almost all their careers in the PL, Etuhu 30-years old and last 5 years in the PL.

That was a quality squad and I’ve mentioned a lot of their ages because the really top players weren’t geriatrics, they should have been capable of promoting us. Mowbray wasn't operating on the same planet as Bowyer, and yet he’s finished with 1 point less this season than Bowyer did with that 2012/13 squad.

You keep talking about Mowbray not having to sell anyone, well that's because the squad was gutted before he got there. Another eerie comparison to Allardyce. Hughes in charge, gut the squad, crap new manager Ince, Allardyce repair job with a lower wage budget. Bowyer in charge, gut the squad, crap new manager Coyle, Mowbray repair job with a lower wage budget. Mowbray hasn't signed a player for £1m+ since summer 2019. What he did this season was incredible, and I'm pretty certain that'll be demonstrated by bottom half finishes in the next couple of years.
Click to expand...
I think we're quite close to agreeing on most things B&WH - Just to quickly pick up on that quality squad though - I think you may be mistaking Bowyers first season - he did manage us briefly to keep us in the division in 12/13 (the Kean, Berg, Appleton, Black, Bowyer debacle), but his first real season was 13/14... this is the list of departures that Bowyer oversaw that summer.

Martin Olsson Norwich City Norwich £2.61m
Scott Dann Crystal Palace Crystal Palace £1.64m
Mauro Formica CD Cruz Azul CD Cruz Azul £630Th.
Josh Morris
Bradley Orr
Gaël Givet
Morten Gamst Pedersen
Diogo Rosado
DJ Campbell
Bruno Ribeiro
John O'Sullivan
Alex Marrow
David Goodwillie
Fábio Nunes
Edinho Júnior
Leon Best
Josh Morris
Nuno Henrique
Rubén Rochina
Yann Songo'o
Nuno Henrique
Jordan Slew
Liam Feeney -
Danny Murphy-
Todd Kane
Michael Keane
Nuno Gomes

So 5 of your 10 had left before a ball was kicked in Bowyer's first campaign. Robinson was also out for 12 months with a pulmonary embolism if you may recall. Dunn played 23 games that season (fair enough) .... Dixon Etuhu played 3 games and was a disgrace... he was later prosecuted for match fixing, something I'm convinced he was up to in a Rovers shirt! https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nded-five-year-ban-for-match-fixing-in-sweden

So, as I say, he had a really sizeable rebuild on his hands, and did it very, very well. The squad he inherited in my opinion was rancid and but for him would probably have had a double relegation on their hands.

The work he did to turn our fortunes around was quite similar to Mowbray, they should both be credited for that. The difference I see in them is that where Bowyer was sacked after 2.5 years when niggling frustration began to set in, Mowbray has ended up staying on 18months too long, in most fans eyes.

As for Allardyce - sacking him was disastrous, anyone with half a brain could see that. Replacing Mowbray SHOULDN'T be as difficult, they've already had 60 applications apparently.. never put anything beyond our owners though.
 
Drog

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
I've continued your comparison in red bwh if that's OK?

blueandwhitehalves said:
You keep talking about Mowbray not having to sell anyone, well that's because the squad was gutted before he got there. Another eerie comparison to Allardyce. Hughes in charge, gut the squad, crap new manager Ince, Allardyce repair job with a lower wage budget another crap manager and relegation.
Bowyer in charge, gut the squad, crap new manager Lambert / Coyle, Mowbray repair job with a lower wage budget. All we need is another poor manager and history could easily repeat itself.:worried:
Click to expand...
 
Drog

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Old Darwen Blue said:
I can assure you the idea of Bowyer as next manager is indeed daft. Now Barr though…
Click to expand...
Say what you like but Bowyer's record here showed that he could spot a player going for little money. Bring him in, improve him and sell for profit. A very necessary quality for our club. Barr's kids are all coming through to the first team now so it's not as daft as you make out.
 
davebirch

davebirch

Senior Member
Drog said:
Say what you like but Bowyer's record here showed that he could spot a player going for little money. Bring him in, improve him and sell for profit. A very necessary quality for our club. Barr's kids are all coming through to the first team now so it's not as daft as you make out.
Click to expand...
I've a feeling that you might be supporting ODB's comment about Barr?
Is that right?
ODB seems to be suggesting that Barr should return in some capacity.
 
Barmitzvah Boy

Barmitzvah Boy

Global winner of the 2021 Christmas Quiz 👊🤩🤩
Barmitzvah Boy said:
We are not getting a new Manager. We are moving to a Director of Football and a Head Coach setup.
Click to expand...
BB gets it right 12 days before it appears in the LT. What a smug wallah I am 😇

This MB needs a like / love yourself button for me to shower myself with self adulation 🤩
 
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