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Alan

Administrator
Staff member
Holier than thou aren't they? Butter wouldn't melt and all that.

However fact remains I'm only small fry compared to that lot but if I found out that I was paying more tax than I need my accountant would be in hot water!
I'm with you on that Gordon. If the government do not have the wit to make legal tax avoidance illegal then people will take advantage. I have never paid more tax than I absolutely have to and don't blame anyone for legally trying to keep their hard earned money rather than give it to work shy shirkers.
 

chor808

Senior Member
News flash- It is our right to have and carry arms. Please refer to the 2nd Amendment to the USA Constitution and the various Supreme Court cases interpreting it.

And I don’t care to surrender my rights because-

1. Gang bangers kill for the drug trade (at least half the murders).
2. The mentally ill get their hands on weapons (usually content to kill themselves, but not always).
3. Liberal progressives decide to become violent (there are more mass shooters who are progressive liberal, than belong to the NRA).

These loons and criminals kill innocents sometimes. If you disarm the law abiding citizens, these loons and criminals will kill more people, not less.

The most recent mass murderer was a prohibited possessor three times over (dishonorable discharge, mental illness, and conviction for domestic violence and assault). The Air Force made a mistake and did not report him to the National database.
Thanks Steve you have just proved my point :). In any case it is your country so go ahead as you please. I'm just glad we don't have that number of guns over here.
 

chor808

Senior Member
I'm with you on that Gordon. If the government do not have the wit to make legal tax avoidance illegal then people will take advantage. I have never paid more tax than I absolutely have to and don't blame anyone for legally trying to keep their hard earned money rather than give it to work shy shirkers.
Or pay for a new school, or a new hospital, or work place training for a shirker, or maybe a new train line or a road. The tax rules are way to complex so of course people find ways round them, cash in hand at the bottom, offshore shell compaines at the top. You are right if it is not illegal people will take advantage, they will never close the loop holes as way too many of their types are involved and benifiting from it. Much easier to create a new poor tax.
 

Alan

Administrator
Staff member
Anybody who pays tax they don't have to is a fool. I'd rather give it to a charity that I approve of rather than to one of those pond lives I see in Accrington centre every day around the caravan that sells hot dogs etc. with their packets of fags and scruffy children.
 

chor808

Senior Member

chor808

Senior Member
As long as it's legal, Yes. I'll bet they are laughing more than you are.
All the way to the bank I'm sure, perhaps they can get there on Lewis's VAT free jet. You have to ask how can it be legal to to paid into a offshore company then get the money back as a loan, then not pay the loan back. As you po9inted out governments should shut this kind of stuff down. Also I'm not buying that 'they knew nothing about it', they will have been advised this is the best way to avoid as much tax as possible but if anyone asks play dumb.
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
Still laughing at your post :)

So these lot are doing the right thing then?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4853918/paradise-papers-list-mrs-browns-boys-tax-haven/
Tax avoidance is as much a problem as tax evasion. Cameron came to power in 2010 with a promise to cut red tape since when the number of ways of avoiding tax have risen from around 900 to more than 1,200!

The country needs more money for vital public services including the NHS, schools, police and the armed forces. Labour on coming to power should clamp down hard on tax avoidance, as well as tax evasion.
 
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ABBEY

Guest
And it's just been on Charlie boy been at it as well...why the bollocks do I have to pay taxes when every fecker with a bit of wedge gets out of it .
 

Alan

Administrator
Staff member
All the way to the bank I'm sure, perhaps they can get there on Lewis's VAT free jet. You have to ask how can it be legal to to paid into a offshore company then get the money back as a loan, then not pay the loan back. As you po9inted out governments should shut this kind of stuff down. Also I'm not buying that 'they knew nothing about it', they will have been advised this is the best way to avoid as much tax as possible but if anyone asks play dumb.
Of course they've been advised! How can it be legal? It appears that it is until a law is made to say otherwise and no laws should be retrospective.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
I'm happy to pay tax for a new school , new hospital , new railway line etc. What totally naffs me off is paying tax to fund the gold plated pensions of public " servants" such as Mike Veale who, according to the Times , it appears can retire at 50 with a pension of £80,000 per year , the equivalent of a £2 million pension pot .

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/48583...ath-child-abuse-investigation-retire-pension/
It keeps being changed but I'm pretty sure that 'normal' people aren't allowed to put more than 1 million into a pension. If Veale's done 30 years then does that mean the taxpayer has paid in the region of £70,000 p.a. into his pension pot on top of his police salary?.... and no doubt his police house etc. If so then it's one rule for the public servants and another for us.
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
It keeps being changed but I'm pretty sure that 'normal' people aren't allowed to put more than 1 million into a pension. If Veale's done 30 years then does that mean the taxpayer has paid in the region of £70,000 p.a. into his pension pot on top of his police salary?.... and no doubt his police house etc. If so then it's one rule for the public servants and another for us.
It's one rule for top public servants (but not those in the middle and at the bottom) and a tax avoiding/evading rule for those at the top of private corporations.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Tax avoidance is as much a problem as tax evasion. Cameron came to power in 2010 with a promise to cut red tape since when the number of ways of avoiding tax have risen from around 900 to more than 1,200!

The country needs more money for vital public services including the NHS, schools, police and the armed forces. Labour on coming to power should clamp down hard on tax avoidance, as well as tax evasion.
Why did we have to wait for Cameron to do that task? Labour had been in power for 13 years by then.

Plus there'd be more money anyway but for the massive financial crash in 2008 when Labour had been in government for 11 years.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
And it's just been on Charlie boy been at it as well...why the bollocks do I have to pay taxes when every fecker with a bit of wedge gets out of it .
The wealthy can afford to have accountants and tax advisers to handle their bunce. We can't. You will prob be PAYE too so it's gone before you know it. The instruction will be to minimise their tax burden and to do it legally. After that those wealthy individuals will have very little to do with it all except sign on a few dotted lines. Responsibility will lie with them of course but it's such a specialist subject that few laymen can ever be expected to know the intricacies of the system.
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
Why did we have to wait for Cameron to do that task? Labour had been in power for 13 years by then.

Plus there'd be more money anyway but for the massive financial crash in 2008 when Labour had been in government for 11 years.
First point is a non-sequiteur and irrelevant from the point I was making.

The "massive financial crash" was a worldwide event that began in the US sub-prime property market.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Of course they've been advised! How can it be legal? It appears that it is until a law is made to say otherwise and no laws should be retrospective.
As in 'innocent until proven guilty'


It's one rule for top public servants (but not those in the middle and at the bottom) and a tax avoiding/evading rule for those at the top of private corporations.
I guess that's linked to individual ambition and the incentive to get to the top then.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
First point is a non-sequiteur and irrelevant from the point I was making.

The "massive financial crash" was a worldwide event that began in the US sub-prime property market.
1. Of course it's relevant. You are criticising Cameron for not doing something that Labour should have done themselves.


2. Labour was in charge at the time and that's that. They are first in line and no one else can be blamed.
Plus it all led to the now famous Treasury note... 'there's no money left' didn't it?
 

Benjamin Kaynine

Senior Member
As in 'innocent until proven guilty'



I guess that's linked to individual ambition and the incentive to get to the top then.
No problem with ambition and success, as long as the highest earners are not avoiding their moral and public duties and are paying the same taxes as everyone else.
 
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