Rovers Academy Going's On's

[Majiball]

Well today we canned the Academy manager Mr Eric Kinder.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...s/15403190.Eric_Kinder_leaves_Rovers/?ref=mac

I have no idea why he has gone nor have I called anyone, but I don't see it as a bad move, a Cat 1 academies primary purpose is to generate Premier League standard players. We do not achieve this and our current crop may only be good enough for a league one bench, as matters stand. There was an interesting comment at the bottom of the LT report hinting that TM had raised issue with the academy's costings in his recent Q and A:

Interesting one this.
I went to the Tony Mowbray Q&A at Ewood on 30th June.
During the discussion - Mowbray questioned why a League 1 football club has a Cat1 academy costing 3m a season.
He seemed to feel it was better to put the money into the first team - and look more at picking up Prem academy rejects at 18 than bringing thru under 16's (which is where much of the money is spent).
Mowbray commented he has 2 lads - neither are in Pro academies as he doesn't agree with the pressure / rejection of youngsters in the pro academy system. They should play for enjoyment & let their talent land them a pro contract.
That makes a lot of sense to me - but IMHO Mowbray talks a lot of sense on all matters football.
Maybe this has filtered through to the club's strategy re academy - hence Kinder departing.
Mowbray said on 30th June - he hadn't had any involvement with the Academy as he was purely "1st Team focussed" in his first 6 months - but is looking to get his "tentacles" into all areas of the club.

I will be honest and say TM's opinion on academies and mine are polar opposite and I do not agree at all with his comments. However they are interesting as given his words IE promotion is the aim, as we would then not be a league one club. I dunno why but it kind of makes me think that the club are not planning to get promoted, or are perhaps hedging there bets in this regard......

The article also says Kinder maybe off to Sunderland with Grayson and so this may also be a rat leaving ship moment, we will see.

 

[Dunnfc]

Sets a dangerous presidence if that's true about TM, great footballing knowledge and bloke but each department of the club should have its own head reporting into a central/Head director to authorise decisions, not letting a manager loose.

Next up will be the ladies team.

 

[Vinjay]

Sets a dangerous presidence if that's true about TM, great footballing knowledge and bloke but each department of the club should have its own head reporting into a central/Head director to authorise decisions, not letting a manager loose.

Next up will be the ladies team.

Well depends on extent but pre-Venkys should remember Hughes swapped the first team/academy facilities round. Disagreed with that decision (particularly as I very much doubt its what Jack would have wanted otherwise such arrangements would be made in first place) but with Venkys here it probably takes long enough deciding who puts the cones out. Hopefully that's all Dunn does if they want to get rid of any youth/EDS coaches he should be first out the door. I imagine he will be at Darwen with the EDS tonight (unless he managed to weasel his way into the Austria trip) wouldn't even have him as their first team manager. Whoever Darwen's manager is I'll bet he's far more competent.

 

[Barmitzvah Boy]

Can understand where TM is coming from. His focus is the 1st team and 6 to 24 months.

However I am equally concerned and interested in the longer term of 5 years plus and this is where the Rovers Academy is vital - just look at Fleetwood Town and the investment (as L2 and now L1) they are putting into their academy.

 

[Majiball]

Sets a dangerous presidence if that's true about TM, great footballing knowledge and bloke but each department of the club should have its own head reporting into a central/Head director to authorise decisions, not letting a manager loose.

Next up will be the ladies team.

Completely off track but who says TM has great footballing knowledge? So great was said knowledge, that we got relegated and had three moments I can think off where he could have kept us up. I remain to be convinced on TM and will see where we are after 10 or so and we had better be top 3-4, or he can go too.

It will be interesting to see who comes in, fingers crossed I know something about them. What's Dick Bate doing these days? I assume retired by now

 

[Majiball]

Can understand where TM is coming from. His focus is the 1st team and 6 to 24 months.

However I am equally concerned and interested in the longer term of 5 years plus and this is where the Rovers Academy is vital - just look at Fleetwood Town and the investment (as L2 and now L1) they are putting into their academy.

It is only sound long term if it produces players either for sale or for the 1st team and we have struggled with this for years. Trouble is most British clubs do so it means we are just poor at developing players over here and change is needed that actually works not the current silly system to feed the big clubs. Take it away from them and bring it under the FA's umbrella.

 

[Vinjay]

Can understand where TM is coming from. His focus is the 1st team and 6 to 24 months.

However I am equally concerned and interested in the longer term of 5 years plus and this is where the Rovers Academy is vital - just look at Fleetwood Town and the investment (as L2 and now L1) they are putting into their academy.

Without going into such a ludicrous comparison they need to spend on infastructure in the long run more than perhaps anyone. They seem intent on getting into the Championship but think even the owner said EPL might be step too far. Maybe it is for Rovers too under current regime but certainly not under new owners if they are reasonably wealthy and debts are cleared/managed.

Far as I know though the Academy budget hasn't been restricted. Some costs cutting probably but nothing Mowbray said seems to indicate it will be underfunded with the difference invested into first team.

Completely off track but who says TM has great footballing knowledge? So great was said knowledge, that we got relegated and had three moments I can think off where he could have kept us up. I remain to be convinced on TM and will see where we are after 10 or so and we had better be top 3-4, or he can go too.

It will be interesting to see who comes in, fingers crossed I know something about them. What's Dick Bate doing these days? I assume retired by now

Think the key thinking there was the "great bloke" remark. Always said simply being a "nice guy" qualified people to work for the club in Rovers fans eyes though I do think Mowbray offers more than that. Said it might come back to haunt as well with all the parasites in the background who were later unmasked. One thing I'm certain is Rovers won't hit rock bottom (any early defeats aside) like the situation at Coventry.

 

[Majiball]

Think the key thinking there was the "great bloke" remark. Always said simply being a "nice guy" qualified people to work for the club in Rovers fans eyes though I do think Mowbray offers more than that. Said it might come back to haunt as well with all the parasites in the background who were later unmasked. One thing I'm certain is Rovers won't hit rock bottom (any early defeats aside) like the situation at Coventry.

Shortly after the takeaway (takeover my arse) way back then in the ether, I was sent a message from a man who's tips were always bang on the money. He said we were Pompey MkII and the lower leagues beckoned as they intended to rape us of every penny they possibly could. Just like he knew Russia and Qatar would win the world cups bids, he has been bang on with us, I await with bated breath and look forward to being proven wrong. But alas I have been bang on so far. Same MO as last relegation, sign players, talk of promotion, blah blah, achieve bugger all. Words and actions, another phrase I coined. This is most likely a smokescreen based on previous and we will end up mid-table, before being relegated further in a couple of years.

 

[Drog]

Can understand where TM is coming from. His focus is the 1st team and 6 to 24 months.

Exactly. With Managers average tenure being about 18 months he knows that he could do a lot with that 3m.

This is something that I've been banging on about for long enough now that we are effectively a minnow again. Any really promising 1st choice kids out there will likely sign for bigger clubs whilst we will get 2nd and 3rd choice youngsters to work with. May as well wait to pick from the 1st choice talent who have fallen by the wayside a couple of years later. The talent will still be there so maybe an opportunity to work on their failings and give them a second chance will reap it's rewards.

 

[Vinjay]

Shortly after the takeaway (takeover my arse) way back then in the ether, I was sent a message from a man who's tips were always bang on the money. He said we were Pompey MkII and the lower leagues beckoned as they intended to rape us of every penny they possibly could. Just like he knew Russia and Qatar would win the world cups bids, he has been bang on with us, I await with bated breath and look forward to being proven wrong. But alas I have been bang on so far. Same MO as last relegation, sign players, talk of promotion, blah blah, achieve bugger all. Words and actions, another phrase I coined. This is most likely a smokescreen based on previous and we will end up mid-table, before being relegated further in a couple of years.

Are you sure he was talking about Anderson or actually Venkys? I can't see any scenario whatsoever where Venkys have made money on this. So if Anderson's out the way (as lawsuits normally suggest) then who's going to make that kind of money? Before people mention Pasha I asked Myers how long he worked for Venkys before the takeover. He said for a good few years. Balaji's bodyguard on BRFCS claimed Pasha was just a liaison and he dislikes JA...not sure if he included before as well as after. Have to say it makes more sense than the Anderson theories with the lawsuit and all.

If Anderson has any friends in the Blackburn area (not a particularly lengthy list I imagine) I'm sure the biggest are those up at Northcote. Though I'm sure he also has friends in genuinely upmarket (not pretentiously claiming to be upmarket) locations...like Monaco for instance.

 

[Majiball]

As an aside and I'll leave the topic to be as intended.

Vinjay millions have gone out of Rovers during there tenure and continue to do so, whilst I do not claim to know the exact workings here is a senario that occurs often in football. Player gets contract and agent takes X % of his salary and bonuses, every year we have signed players on silly contracts and still do as now we are beating 'championship' clubs to players by offering more money. Lets not forget contractgate the never seen before in football event of onmass paying off of contracts. People say they are stupid, made mistakes etc etc and they never learn etc etc, but given ALL the other aspects of Venky's empire are doing well, then surely they are not that thick? Any business man worth their salt would raise their eyebrow at the 40M plus event we all witnessed. Even last year Mr SEM rocked up and was here until certain doom was achieved and yet 'he who shall not be named' is out of the picture as a law suit supposedly occurred? Mmmm. They refuse to sell, even speak to potential buyers, the rest of their businesses are doing well and make money and yet rovers declines. Come on somehow, someway they still benefit from owning us....

 

[Vinjay]

Yeah they make money at home but provide evidence they have made money out of Rovers. Anderson did won't dispute that and so did other leeches like Agnew. Others like Shaw made their money months after the takeover was completed. Of course the Walker family made money as well though they probably believe they "lost" money overall on Rovers. Well that's a load of damn rubbish because it was Jack's money and he could do whatever the hell he pleased with it. With their arrogance there's no doubt they felt an entitlement to every last penny Jack made. Infact when he sold Walkersteel they probably thought he should give everything to them and live in a shed or something. You won't consider that Matthewman, Howard were in cahoots with Anderson all along? Has anyone filed legal action against the trust over Rovers despite the blatant neglect before and during the takeover process? No the Walkers filed action over something else but its telling Rovers were not included in that lawsuit. You know why? Because it was them pushing for the trust to sell and no doubt threatening legal blackmail at every opportunity. Matthewman, Howard, etc taking a cut of Anderson's leeching as well and they didn't even have to do any of the work except force the trust to sell. I'm sure that took tremendous difficulty persuading them to sell a club they didn't give a toss about.

Why does that seem so unbelievable compared to an actual lawsuit you believe was just a smokescreen? Venkys never do learn where football is concerned with or without Anderson around.

 

[tomphil]

On the academy thing we keep getting told they are here for the long term ( hideously) and they intend on building the club back up again and the academy is a big part of that hence all the money spent and effort to atain and keep cat 1.

Now maybe a mass downscale maybe on the horizon putting all that money and effort to complete waste. Typical Venky logicis to continue to rack up losses this side of the world for some reason but if they have a long term plan this stuff with academy flies right against it if they want promotion first time around. Surely they'd carry the set up as it is for a season at least seeing as if promoted they might need it back to cat 1 again.

Doesn't add up as usual and makes you think some of these signings have only been made with the intention of punting on for profit in 12 months time regardless of promotion or not.

 

[dingles staying down]

Or Kinder got a better offer at Sunderland?

 

[Majiball]

Yeah they make money at home but provide evidence they have made money out of Rovers. Anderson did won't dispute that and so did other leeches like Agnew. Others like Shaw made their money months after the takeover was completed. Of course the Walker family made money as well though they probably believe they "lost" money overall on Rovers. Well that's a load of damn rubbish because it was Jack's money and he could do whatever the hell he pleased with it. With their arrogance there's no doubt they felt an entitlement to every last penny Jack made. Infact when he sold Walkersteel they probably thought he should give everything to them and live in a shed or something. You won't consider that Matthewman, Howard were in cahoots with Anderson all along? Has anyone filed legal action against the trust over Rovers despite the blatant neglect before and during the takeover process? No the Walkers filed action over something else but its telling Rovers were not included in that lawsuit. You know why? Because it was them pushing for the trust to sell and no doubt threatening legal blackmail at every opportunity. Matthewman, Howard, etc taking a cut of Anderson's leeching as well and they didn't even have to do any of the work except force the trust to sell. I'm sure that took tremendous difficulty persuading them to sell a club they didn't give a toss about.

Why does that seem so unbelievable compared to an actual lawsuit you believe was just a smokescreen? Venkys never do learn where football is concerned with or without Anderson around.

Where is evidence that shows Anderson and Agnew made money from Rovers? Where is any evidence to support anyone making money from Rovers?

Pasha I am told has worked for both parties, but forgot to tell them what Anderson was like? Coyle turned up after the lawsuit did he not? The purchase money came from Bradford. The conflicts with them being innocent fools are extensive. As always we make things more complicated than they are. They all knew from day one and they all still benefit from owning us, it is the simplest answer. How is a different question.

 

[Drog]

 

[Vinjay]

Where is evidence that shows Anderson and Agnew made money from Rovers? Where is any evidence to support anyone making money from Rovers?

Pasha I am told has worked for both parties, but forgot to tell them what Anderson was like? Coyle turned up after the lawsuit did he not? The purchase money came from Bradford. The conflicts with them being innocent fools are extensive. As always we make things more complicated than they are. They all knew from day one and they all still benefit from owning us, it is the simplest answer. How is a different question.

OK lets have an example...when Berg sued. Who made money from that act of incompetence aside from Berg? Shaw was the one who screwed up over that but it still shows pure incompetence from Venkys for appointing an idiot. Or should we believe that Shaw secretly made a deal knowing Berg would sue and split the costs 3 ways with Anderson also involved? OK sardonic remarks aside isn't that just plain stupidity and nothing else? Agnew of course was the one who pushed for Shaw but that does not mean Anderson was involved. Quite believable with Agnew working for Preston North End in the past and handing a job to an incompetent buddy.

There are the betting allegations at least that's something they could conceivably make money from. That and match fixing though there's still absolutely no proof there.

Who cares about Coyle is there any conclusive proof Anderson was ever his agent? Stephen Warnock was on Kentaro's books is everyone who's ever had any kind of affiliation with them involved? You may ask why else did Coyle get the job? Well compared to candidates like Redfearn, Slade, etc why shouldn't he have been mentioned? Joyce was linked too and he was a failure when he got another job. How exactly by the way did Coyle benefit from managing Rovers? Venkys offered very little support and he was obviously frustrated in January. Why would Anderson have put him in that situation? Kean on the other hand made a hell of a lot more being handed a job + money he otherwise had no chance of getting. From what I've heard Coyle wasn't on anything excessive though some may say 1p would have been excessive for him.

Didn't respond to the Walkers stuff either. What a surprise. You can't just pick and choose what theories you're gonna chase up. You have to admit its more believable than that lawsuit being a smokescreen. There is no doubt the family wanted the trustees to sell and made absolutely no effort to question the sale process. Is it far fetched to believe Matthewman and the Rovers hating prat Howard were on it with Anderson? You can accuse me of hating the Walkers more if you like (and you would be right where Howard is concerned he's no 1 on my hate list) but its about punishing everyone involved. Not letting them get away with it because being screwed over by your own relatives is somehow OK. Northcote are still doing business with the club how on earth can anyone justify that?

There's so many accusations. They can't all be true even if some of them were. Its tiring. Now BEFORE the lawsuit in 2010 and 2011 there's perhaps more substance to allegations. Perhaps you should concentrate on proving those first and distinguish between what was bad advice (hence the lawsuit) and illegal.

 

[Drog]

One thing that I do know is that Jack Walker instilled in his kids was NEVER to discuss business and family in public. The Rao's too appear to be a closed shop. Seems however that a number of people around here have formed their own opinions based on little more than heresay. I suggest that we'll never know the ins and outs for sure, but what I do know is that 2+2 can never equal 5.

 

[Alan]

Yep some people have a vivid imagination!

 

[Lina]

It is interesting.