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    Saturday 4th May 2024
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    Championship

Venkys: Is the proverbial about to hit the fan?

khmerblue

Senior Member
Is anyone really suprised with the events at ewood.We sold Adam for a pittance and signed no one for cash except the 500k on the crewe kid.And that took weeks of raiding piggy banks.We have needed a foward all season why leave it to the last minute? The answer is so Venkys can fuck it up.If we had gone for the american lad 2 weeks ago they could not do that as form filling had time to rectify the deliberate mistakes.It comes down to the fact we have no money why not come out and tell us the facts.A large percentage of Rovers fans were excited about the Mcguire signing and all it was a smoke screen blowing out of Venkies arse.
 

Drog

Administrator
Staff member
I think it's just the usual poor communication between the owners in India and the management waggy. I'd suggest that the management thought the Wharton sale would provide for a couple of much needed signings but the bean counters in Pune were on a different page. I've no problem with this as most observers will know the reasons but communications should be much clearer.
 

blueandwhitehalves

Senior Member
Simple, someone else can take over and run the club better. The venkys are a curse not the be all and end all.
Simple to say, impossible to achieve I'd argue.

Venkys have now spent about as much on Rovers as Jack Walker did (including Jack rebuilding Ewood Park). That's the cost of keeping Rovers competitive in the Championship for a decade in the modern game. To financially absorb those losses, you either need a die-hard fan with £500m in the bank, or a random billionaire with £5 billion.

No random billionaire individual or organisation is going to come in and buy Rovers, to bank roll a phenomenally expensive and extremely risky tilt at promotion against Championship clubs with 30,000+ gates (and so large fan-generated revenue), ones with £80-90m parachute payments in the bank, or ones with rich owners themselves (or often 2 or 3 of the above).

Along with that unfavourable risk/reward, there's no opportunity to grow Rovers. If a billionaire spends a small fortune to establish us back in the PL, what happens then? Exactly what happened in the 00s under Hughes when our crowds dropped from 25,000 to 21,000 even during a period of great success. We see the same Islamification of Blackburn, the same white flight, and the same deteriorating fanbase.

It took the Walker Trust years to find a buyer for Rovers even when we were in the PL and on the ever growing TV money train, because Rovers is an extremely unattractive investment. A random billionaire is buying Sunderland, Southampton, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Coventry, Cardiff or Hull before they're buying us. Big city clubs and/or big catchment areas with the potential to grow.

Having some rich guilt-ridden/prideful Indians willing to lose £15m a year to keep us in the Championship is by a mile the best offer on the table for Rovers. If we were fan owned we'd be in League 1 guaranteed.
 
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Drog

Administrator
Staff member
Along with that unfavourable risk/reward, there's no opportunity to grow Rovers. If a billionaire spends a small fortune to establish us back in the PL, what happens then? Exactly what happened in the 00s under Hughes when our crowds dropped from 25,000 to 21,000 even during a period of great success. We see the same Islamification of Blackburn, the same white flight, and the same deteriorating fanbase.

It took the Walker Trust years to find a buyer for Rovers even when we were in the PL and on the ever growing TV money train, because Rovers is an extremely unattractive investment. A random billionaire is buying Sunderland, Southampton, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Coventry, Cardiff or Hull before they're buying us. Big city clubs and/or big catchment areas with the potential to grow.
North West County? Lancashire United? It really is the only long term solution for a sustainable club in the top two divisions.
Problem is Jack having purchased the most unsustainable could have then bought Blackpool, PNE and Burnley for buttons in 1990, sold the lot of em for supermarket development etc, built a new stadium somewhere near the convergance of the M6, M61, M65 and the M55. Die hards would have moaned of course but the kids would have loved it. 30 years on and most of the objectors would either have overcome their intransigence or died.
Now it's not so easy, Burnley will believe that they have no financial need to partake whilst PNE (and especially Bolton) are enjoying a modicum of success. The chance has probably gone and the rest of us might easily end up having to buy claret and blue or white and navy scarves.
Rather ironic that the making of the modern BRFC and the destruction of it can both be distilled to one thing..... MONEY!
 

MattAF

Active Member
Simple to say, impossible to achieve I'd argue.

Venkys have now spent about as much on Rovers as Jack Walker did (including Jack rebuilding Ewood Park). That's the cost of keeping Rovers competitive in the Championship for a decade in the modern game. To financially absorb those losses, you either need a die-hard fan with £500m in the bank, or a random billionaire with £5 billion.

No random billionaire individual or organisation is going to come in and buy Rovers, to bank roll a phenomenally expensive and extremely risky tilt at promotion against Championship clubs with 30,000+ gates (and so large fan-generated revenue), ones with £80-90m parachute payments in the bank, or ones with rich owners themselves (or often 2 or 3 of the above).

Along with that unfavourable risk/reward, there's no opportunity to grow Rovers. If a billionaire spends a small fortune to establish us back in the PL, what happens then? Exactly what happened in the 00s under Hughes when our crowds dropped from 25,000 to 21,000 even during a period of great success. We see the same Islamification of Blackburn, the same white flight, and the same deteriorating fanbase.

It took the Walker Trust years to find a buyer for Rovers even when we were in the PL and on the ever growing TV money train, because Rovers is an extremely unattractive investment. A random billionaire is buying Sunderland, Southampton, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Coventry, Cardiff or Hull before they're buying us. Big city clubs and/or big catchment areas with the potential to grow.

Having some rich guilt-ridden/prideful Indians willing to lose £15m a year to keep us in the Championship is by a mile the best offer on the table for Rovers. If we were fan owned we'd be in League 1 guaranteed.
It appears however guilt ridden the owners are the taps are turned off possibly indefinitely. A new solution is required imho
 

blueandwhitehalves

Senior Member
It appears however guilt ridden the owners are the taps are turned off possibly indefinitely. A new solution is required imho
The taps might be getting turned off on bringing in players for millions, but that's a fraction of what sustaining the wage bill costs Venkys.

There's no way we could keep Gallagher on the books, or offer Szmodics a new contract, based on revenue generated by the fans.
 

Old Darwen Blue

Prediction Champion 2021, 2022 & 2023
Well just my opinion cos I don't know the chap personally but I think Steve Waggot will resign. His position has become untenable and I'd heard that he was nearing retirement anyway.
I think after the abuse he got on Saturday he knows the writings on the wall for him.
 

Old Darwen Blue

Prediction Champion 2021, 2022 & 2023
Simple to say, impossible to achieve I'd argue.

Venkys have now spent about as much on Rovers as Jack Walker did (including Jack rebuilding Ewood Park). That's the cost of keeping Rovers competitive in the Championship for a decade in the modern game. To financially absorb those losses, you either need a die-hard fan with £500m in the bank, or a random billionaire with £5 billion.

No random billionaire individual or organisation is going to come in and buy Rovers, to bank roll a phenomenally expensive and extremely risky tilt at promotion against Championship clubs with 30,000+ gates (and so large fan-generated revenue), ones with £80-90m parachute payments in the bank, or ones with rich owners themselves (or often 2 or 3 of the above).

Along with that unfavourable risk/reward, there's no opportunity to grow Rovers. If a billionaire spends a small fortune to establish us back in the PL, what happens then? Exactly what happened in the 00s under Hughes when our crowds dropped from 25,000 to 21,000 even during a period of great success. We see the same Islamification of Blackburn, the same white flight, and the same deteriorating fanbase.

It took the Walker Trust years to find a buyer for Rovers even when we were in the PL and on the ever growing TV money train, because Rovers is an extremely unattractive investment. A random billionaire is buying Sunderland, Southampton, Ipswich, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Coventry, Cardiff or Hull before they're buying us. Big city clubs and/or big catchment areas with the potential to grow.

Having some rich guilt-ridden/prideful Indians willing to lose £15m a year to keep us in the Championship is by a mile the best offer on the table for Rovers. If we were fan owned we'd be in League 1 guaranteed.
Sorry all that is speculation.
 

Old Darwen Blue

Prediction Champion 2021, 2022 & 2023
North West County? Lancashire United? It really is the only long term solution for a sustainable club in the top two divisions.
Problem is Jack having purchased the most unsustainable could have then bought Blackpool, PNE and Burnley for buttons in 1990, sold the lot of em for supermarket development etc, built a new stadium somewhere near the convergance of the M6, M61, M65 and the M55. Die hards would have moaned of course but the kids would have loved it. 30 years on and most of the objectors would either have overcome their intransigence or died.
Now it's not so easy, Burnley will believe that they have no financial need to partake whilst PNE (and especially Bolton) are enjoying a modicum of success. The chance has probably gone and the rest of us might easily end up having to buy claret and blue or white and navy scarves.
Rather ironic that the making of the modern BRFC and the destruction of it can both be distilled to one thing..... MONEY!
Are you pissed?
 

Psychosoma

New Member
I can understand some of the anger towards the owners, some of it fair, some of it misplaced I think. Human nature is to find a scapegoat and some decisions over the years have made it easier for people to lay the blame squarely at their door. Ive always felt its way more complex and I dont believe for a second that they have in the past or intend to in the future, purposefully damage the club.

Ultimately for me, I remind myself, who is sitting waiting to take on whats basically a heavy loss making football team without anything obvious to suggest huge growth opportunities? I feel we'd be in a considerably worse position without them. That doesnt negate or excuse some of the decisions made (and likely those yet to be made) but for me personally, it balances my thoughts on the subject.
 

blueandwhitehalves

Senior Member
Sorry all that is speculation.
Well admittedly I forgot to adjust for inflation on the first point, so Venkys have spent about half as much as Jack in real terms (sorry Jack!). But £200m is an obscene amount of money to lose in any case.

The second paragraph is a set of facts. Sunderland, Leeds and Leicester all average over 30,000. £80m or 90m over 3 years is what you get in parachute payments, depending how long you were in the PL. And 11 of the current 24 Championship clubs have billionaire owners.

Our average attendance went from 26,226 in 2002/03 to 21,275 in 2006/07. During which time we finished 6th twice, 10th once, had 2 FA Cup semi-finals, 2 League Cup semi-finals and 3 European campaigns.

The Walker Trust appointed Rothschild to find a buyer in summer 2007, over 3 years before that snake Jerome Anderson (who I assume the Trust tried next) found his saps in Venkys.

I've drawn my own conclusions from the above facts. But all speculation? I wish it was.
 
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Old Darwen Blue

Prediction Champion 2021, 2022 & 2023
Well admittedly I forgot to adjust for inflation on the first point, so Venkys have spent about half as much as Jack in real terms (sorry Jack!). But £200m is an obscene amount of money to lose in any case.

The second paragraph is a set of facts. Sunderland, Leeds and Leicester all average over 30,000. £80m or 90m over 3 years is what you get in parachute payments, depending how long you were in the PL. And 11 of the current 24 Championship clubs have billionaire owners.

Our average attendance went from 26,226 in 2002/03 to 21,275 in 2006/07. During which time we finished 6th twice, 10th once, had 2 FA Cup semi-finals, 2 League Cup semi-finals and 3 European campaigns.

The Walker Trust appointed Rothschild to find a buyer in summer 2007, over 3 years before that snake Jerome Anderson (who I assume the Trust tried next) found his saps in Venkys.

I've drawn my own conclusions from the above facts. But all speculation? I wish it was.
Sorry, maybe I should’ve been a bit more specific. The point I was making is that the Venkys are not the centre of the world.
 

blueandwhitehalves

Senior Member
OK but my argument broken down is:
1. Venkys have spent an absolute fortune on Rovers.
2. Spending an even bigger fortune by no means guarantees promotion, given the money other Championship clubs have (from large fanbases, parachute payments, and their own rich owners).
3. Our fanbase is continually shrinking, and it's not an attractive investment to buy a business with a shrinking customer base.
4. At a time when we were a far more attractive investment (debt free with PL TV money income), the Walker Trust still couldn't find anyone decent to buy us after 3.5 years of trying. So had to resort to a slimy football agent duping some clueless chicken farmers.

So I just don't understand why you think we'd find a phenomenally generous billionaire buyer for a football club based in a predominantly Muslim town. I wouldn't like to pitch it on Dragons Den, put it that way!
 

Dunnfc

Senior Member
I think it's just the usual poor communication between the owners in India and the management waggy. I'd suggest that the management thought the Wharton sale would provide for a couple of much needed signings but the bean counters in Pune were on a different page. I've no problem with this as most observers will know the reasons but communications should be much clearer.
What how can it happen 3 times in 18 months though? Just put the club up for sale ffs.
 

RoversQ77

Active Member
OK but my argument broken down is:
1. Venkys have spent an absolute fortune on Rovers.
2. Spending an even bigger fortune by no means guarantees promotion, given the money other Championship clubs have (from large fanbases, parachute payments, and their own rich owners).
3. Our fanbase is continually shrinking, and it's not an attractive investment to buy a business with a shrinking customer base.
4. At a time when we were a far more attractive investment (debt free with PL TV money income), the Walker Trust still couldn't find anyone decent to buy us after 3.5 years of trying. So had to resort to a slimy football agent duping some clueless chicken farmers.

So I just don't understand why you think we'd find a phenomenally generous billionaire buyer for a football club based in a predominantly Muslim town. I wouldn't like to pitch it on Dragons Den, put it that way!
I hope you don't mind me butting in, b&wh. I have seen you mention previously that you see us a League One club lucky to be competing at this level, or words to that effect. Could this also be a reason as to why you believe that nobody credible will be interested in buying us? It's a view that I can't fathom myself, but I respect that it's your opinion, as I am the complete opposite in regards to how I view our club. For me, I see a Premier League club that has been ruined by owners who know nothing about football, who have reduced Rovers to this shower that we see today. The state of the club today is all down to the owners, imo. The club is littered with incompetent people above the manager, people who would never have got near the club under Uncle Jack or John Williams, people with links to SEM are stationed throughout the club (I wonder why), we have morons at the top repeatedly making the club look a laughing stock. On the pitch we have a collection of short term loanees and frees meaning we have to rebuild again in the summer. We've been hearing about rebuilds and 'journeys' since 2018 under Mowbray. It's hogwash because of these owners, who do not allow any rebuilding to take place.

I believe that 13 years of this carry on has beaten a lot of the fanbase into thinking this is as good as it gets. It isn't! A new owner will wake everybody up to how crap this ownership has been. That new owner doesn't even have to be an oil baron, tycoon or nation state. Nobody is asking for a tilt at another Premier League trophy. Quite simply somebody with a bit of ambition and care would do. We have been starved of that for 13 years. Zero ambition. £200m these prats are down, and they have sod all to show for it.

1. They have spent a fortune covering the bills/losses, which they have played a big part in causing in the first place. Covering the losses/paying the bills is not a reason for pats on the back. PNE lose £15m a season, which is covered by their owners. Why do we never hear how "wonderful and generous" the Hemmings Family is for pumping £15 a year into PNE? Why is there no song and dance made about 'PNE going to the wall' without their owner's input? Only at Rovers and among the Rovers fans does this seemingly happen. Rovers have no hope without Venky's, apparently. Yet the rest of the Championship is ok if their respective owners were to leave? This doomsday angle is only saved for Rovers. I strongly suspect it has been initiated by agents to keep Venky's in situ and now ran with by thousands repeating "who else is going to put £15m in, Venky's must stay".

2. True, there is no guarantee. There is, however, no chance of going up doing what we are currently doing. When have this lot spent a fortune trying to win promotion? It quite simply has never happened. Despite that, JDT had us close to the play offs last season and it only needed a final push from the owners. Not a massive outlay, just a reasonable push. For the second January in a row though, including Mowbray's last, they showed that they didn't give a damn, which is why they need to go. Look at the state of this January window, with everybody laughing at us, for further proof that they need to go. A new owner would bring renewed hope and restore a bit of pride about the place. Everybody connected to Rovers needs it. Hope.

3. Our fanbase shrinking might have something to do with the garbage and chaos that the fans have had to endure for the last 13 years. Right at the beginning, protests ignored, fans painted as the villains, new contract for Kean, the agency allowed to run riot. All of this caused 10,000 fans to walk away. Many never to return. Then you have the managerial appointments from the stable linked to the bastards at the very beginning. All the way up until Mowbray. People notice these things. Owen Coyle turning up pissed off many. I know people who quit at that point as they felt that the piss was being taken out of them by somebody. There are a number of diehards who are about to pack it in now after the latest transfer debacle that has everybody laughing at us. A debacle which suggests there are still big issues behind the scenes. I accept that there might be other factors at play to explain our shrinking fanbase such as: being in the Championship, a shift in demographics, ticket prices etc but the biggest reason is what these owners have done to the club and continue to do. They have almost killed the club. It is an unrecognisable shell. This is why fans have left and more are leaving. The damage that these owners have done shouldn't be underestimated. A lot of those fans will be back when a new owner is in town and there is hope again.

4. Can't argue with the fact that we couldn't find a buyer back in the Prem days. However, what I will say is that the football landscape has changed a lot since then. The TV money in the Premier League has exploded. It exploded the year after we were relegated, meaning the hapless in Pune missed out. Good! Promotion results in a £150m windfall. There are more parties out there today, and significantly wealthier parties than back then, looking to buy Clubs in England, particularly from the Middle East. We had a Qatari oil giant try to buy us off Venky's in 2011. A Middle Eastern consortium made an approach to Venky's within the last 12 months, three other consortiums were also interested, two American. All ignored by Venky's, of course. You're not seriously saying Birmingham, Hull and Wrexham are more attractive than Rovers, are you? They've done diddly in the game compared to us. We have more pedigree than a lot of clubs and aren't as unattractive as people think. I think taking the former Premier League Champions back up into the Prem and securing £150m in the process might just appeal to a few. We just need these clowns to put us up for sale. I am expecting a few pleasantly surprised Rovers fans when they see who comes forward. Everything about the club has been dead for a long time. Venky's are not the only game in town! However, reading social media, you would think nobody on this Earth could ever fund Rovers except Venky's. These are an absolute joke, being treated like royalty for paying the bills.

Just on the Muslim town comment, I would think that might be of big appeal to any potential Qatari or Saudi based investor, rather than the opposite. Even if a new owner was from another region, whether there's a growing Muslim population in Blackburn or not would be irrelevant, in my view. The Muslim fans will be there to see Rovers, just like the diehards and the fans who are staying away, because it only takes a bit of ambition and respect for the club, to bring the fans back.
 
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