Stoke City v Rovers: 25th November 2023

[1SimonGarner]

In all seriousness ODB your feelings are the same as a lot of fans, I know some very decent Burnley fans that were happier competing in the C'ship than getting wankered every week in the Prem.

It's not a discussion for here but to make promoted teams more able to compete in the Prem, what's wrong with them getting some sort of reverse parachute payment from the Premier League, something akin to the NFL rule where the team finishing bottom of the league getting the first draft picks the season after. Something has to be done to even things out, if only a little, so clubs like us can compete if we achieve our dream and not have it turn into a guaranteed nightmare.

 

[Drog]

Reverse parachute payment? More money dished out??? Just more prune juice. However if clubs lose points etc for transgressing FFP then football will go through a period of deflation and that will shift the sands again. Whatever happens though the bigger clubs will still come up trumps when the dust settles.

 

[1SimonGarner]

You're obviously correct Drog, the money that Sky and the super rich owners have flooded the Premiership with will always find it's way to the big city clubs. That has generally always been the case, but never to this level, never to the extent that promoted clubs find it nearly impossible to even compete.

It's not impossible, Brighton are the model club proving that point, but it's harder than it's ever been and the biggest danger is that in even trying to compete, clubs spend well beyond their budget and end up falling foul of the FFP or even worse being threatened with going bust.

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

I've a different view on the state of Burnley personally, I think they're in a very enviable position. By not gambling it all when they get promoted, every time they come back down they've probably about £100m in the bank from PL tv money and parachute payments, and can almost guarantee bossing the Championship. Last season they bought a £10m striker in the January transfer window who ended up as a squad player. We can't even spend £5m to replace Brereton.

The only reason they're in this position of financial luxury compared to Rovers, is that since Dyche promoted them 9 years ago, they've been cautious and smart. Sacrificing the odd season of PL drubbings to build their bank balance and turn themselves into a yo-yo club. So for me the Burnley situation unfortunately doesn't represent anything but success. Yeah they're not going to manage survival this time, but they've effectively given themselves unlimited shots at it cause they'll come back down next season and outspend the Championship again.

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

On Adam Wharton, I think there has to be some recognition that keeping possession is much harder when you're expected to make attacking passes and create chances.

Its been forgotten in the deserved hero worship thats built up since he retired, but Tugay used to give the ball away a lot too and I remember fans getting on his back at times. But as with Wharton, his job was to create chances.

It's a lot easier for centre halves and limited defensive midfielders to have high pass completion rates when all they're expected to do is shift the ball sideways 10 yards, or play safe 5-10 yard forward passes.

This is why I hate the angry groan noise fans do when players like Wharton give the ball away. It's negative reinforcement to not try risky or difficult passes. And all teams are defensively organised enough that the straight forward passes don't create anything.

 

[1SimonGarner]

I agree to an extent BAWH but what happened to the English football dream, it's not dead yet, Luton have proved that, but it's not far off. Fancy a situation where a club is happy to get their arses handed to them every other season just so they can bank some money.

English football used to be about the dream, the actual game itself and the strength of the pyramid, now it's becoming more and more a discussion about money. Who has it, who hasn't, who's spending it legally, who's spending too much, how can a club get more etc etc.

I'm sure the fans of the "have" clubs see no problem with the current situation, for the fans of the have not's, it'll slowly kill the game.

 

[goozburger.]

It appears like it to me. You look for every fault and point it out. You don't do this for other players.

Check my post-match comments, particularly regarding Hill, Pickering, and Dolan. There are also plenty of times that other players gave the ball away which I pointed out. I don't really care who does it if it puts us on the back foot. It's just a point of note, and it just so happens that it's something Wharton clearly needs to work on, as well as a few others. The rest of his game is excellent, particularly his vision for making defence-splitting passes.

That I delight in pointing out his faults, or that I go looking for them and ignore it when other players do it is, respectfully, total nonsense, Al.

 

[Drog]

I've a different view on the state of Burnley personally, I think they're in a very enviable position. By not gambling it all when they get promoted, every time they come back down they've probably about £100m in the bank from PL tv money and parachute payments, and can almost guarantee bossing the Championship. Last season they bought a £10m striker in the January transfer window who ended up as a squad player. We can't even spend £5m to replace Brereton.

The only reason they're in this position of financial luxury compared to Rovers, is that since Dyche promoted them 9 years ago, they've been cautious and smart. Sacrificing the odd season of PL drubbings to build their bank balance and turn themselves into a yo-yo club. So for me the Burnley situation unfortunately doesn't represent anything but success. Yeah they're not going to manage survival this time, but they've effectively given themselves unlimited shots at it cause they'll come back down next season and outspend the Championship again.

Until Parry and the EFL manage to do away with the parachute payments. I'ts meant to give relegated players a soft landing but all it's doing is giving the championship an imbalanced skew of the have's and have not's. Goodness only knows why clubs don't insert relegation clauses into players contracts as a matter of course.

 

[Drog]

On Adam Wharton, I think there has to be some recognition that keeping possession is much harder when you're expected to make attacking passes and create chances.

Its been forgotten in the deserved hero worship thats built up since he retired, but Tugay used to give the ball away a lot too and I remember fans getting on his back at times. But as with Wharton, his job was to create chances.

It's a lot easier for centre halves and limited defensive midfielders to have high pass completion rates when all they're expected to do is shift the ball sideways 10 yards, or play safe 5-10 yard forward passes.

This is why I hate the angry groan noise fans do when players like Wharton give the ball away. It's negative reinforcement to not try risky or difficult passes. And all teams are defensively organised enough that the straight forward passes don't create anything.

Tugay's invisible friend! Another great playmaker we had who got unnecessary criticism from sections of the Ewood crowd for giving the occasional stray pass was Tim Sherwood. I'd give my right arm to get him and Tugay in their pomp back in our midfield now.

 

[Peter quill]

The best thing that could have happened to English football was the breakaway league. Get the big greedy boys out of football and maybe they’d have took sky with them
We may have then settled down to the way football was meant to be pre sky, pre Arab millions , pre big businesses.
The financial fair play rules where the brainchild of Michael platini the most corrupt man that has ever been involved in football. Ok second most corrupt
It didn’t even amaze me when the premiership clubs voted to allow transfers between sister clubs.
The whole lot has just completely lost it’s way. Totally from top to bottom corrupt

 

[davebirch]

not much to argue with there, Peter.
At the moment, we have (what is it?) 6 mega billionaires competing against each other, the rest are also rans. Just where is the glory in winning a league like that, where the smaller opposition is blown out of the water before the start of the season.
Make it a fair competition at the start of the season, it's far from that at the moment.
Scrap the parachute payments, if you stuff up, wear the consequences.
Finally, the Premier league and the EFL should remember their origins and look after their heritage.

 

[Drog]

I've said as much all my life. We are told the best supported club in England is Man Utd, the press and media fawn all over them and expect everyone to fall in line and do the same, however I'm sure a poll amongst football supporters would reveal that far more people dislike them and want them to do poorly than actually profess to like them. There is something akin to those slimy little acolytes of the school bully about their self proclaimed supporters.

 

[Old Darwen Blue]

Have faith in our mates up the road ODB, I've got the feeling they'll finish the season strong and get to at least 8 or 9 points by the end.

It's hard for a club the size of Bumley to compete with the bigger ones......like Luton.

Derby currently hold the title of the worst all time premier league team with 11 points. I’m hoping the scruffs get less.

They are also on seven consecutive home defeats but unfortunately have Sheffield United visiting soon so I suspect that run may end. They really are an embarrassment.

 

[Old Darwen Blue]

I've a different view on the state of Burnley personally, I think they're in a very enviable position. By not gambling it all when they get promoted, every time they come back down they've probably about £100m in the bank from PL tv money and parachute payments, and can almost guarantee bossing the Championship. Last season they bought a £10m striker in the January transfer window who ended up as a squad player. We can't even spend £5m to replace Brereton.

The only reason they're in this position of financial luxury compared to Rovers, is that since Dyche promoted them 9 years ago, they've been cautious and smart. Sacrificing the odd season of PL drubbings to build their bank balance and turn themselves into a yo-yo club. So for me the Burnley situation unfortunately doesn't represent anything but success. Yeah they're not going to manage survival this time, but they've effectively given themselves unlimited shots at it cause they'll come back down next season and outspend the Championship again.

Yes but where do you think most of that prize money will go? Pace mostly brokered the deal by using the clubs own money and drained their bank account. ALK are investors after all as are the strange Americans that they have so far brought on board. They’ll all want their dividends in the end.

 

[Old Darwen Blue]

I agree to an extent BAWH but what happened to the English football dream, it's not dead yet, Luton have proved that, but it's not far off. Fancy a situation where a club is happy to get their arses handed to them every other season just so they can bank some money.

English football used to be about the dream, the actual game itself and the strength of the pyramid, now it's becoming more and more a discussion about money. Who has it, who hasn't, who's spending it legally, who's spending too much, how can a club get more etc etc.

I'm sure the fans of the "have" clubs see no problem with the current situation, for the fans of the have not's, it'll slowly kill the game.

Look at Ipswich who look like achieving back to back promotions without spending silly money too.

 

[khmerblue]

Back to the match do the concousion rules count in the ELF if so Wharton will be midding on wed.

 

[Old Darwen Blue]

I've said as much all my life. We are told the best supported club in England is Man Utd, the press and media fawn all over them and expect everyone to fall in line and do the same, however I'm sure a poll amongst football supporters would reveal that far more people dislike them and want them to do poorly than actually profess to like them. There is something akin to those slimy little acolytes of the school bully about their self proclaimed supporters.

My father hates manure with a passion and is mostly ambivalent towards the inbred. Mind you he remembers relegation in the mid 60s and Rovers gates dropping by 5000 whilst manures went up. Self entitled lot those fans.

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

I've said as much all my life. We are told the best supported club in England is Man Utd, the press and media fawn all over them and expect everyone to fall in line and do the same, however I'm sure a poll amongst football supporters would reveal that far more people dislike them and want them to do poorly than actually profess to like them. There is something akin to those slimy little acolytes of the school bully about their self proclaimed supporters.

Couldn't agree more with that last sentence. During the 90s/00s it felt like ManUre gloryhunters were on the verge of taking over the country. Every school and workplace would have a few, walking down the street you'd regularly see ManUre shirts. Their fans/gloryhunters would pack local pubs for their away matches.

And this happened everywhere. I used to be disgusted seeing it in Blackburn in the 90s when there was still a bitter rivalry. But I've since seen scouse, Yorkshire, obviously London ManUre fans. And like you said always with this cocky, chavvy "What are you gonna do about it?" attitude.

The last decade of failure has got rid of their cocky attitude a bit, so long may that continue. And ManUre gloryhunters are saints in my book compared to the neanderthals going on these pro-Palestine marches. But yeah for a good while I can't put into words how much I despised ManUre and their fans.

 

[1SimonGarner]

Good vid on Youtube showcasing Rovers brilliant support at Stoke.

Is that Drog crowd surfing

 

[1SimonGarner]

Just on the Man U thing. It's not unique to them, it comes with success, but I tend to distrust anyone that professes to support a club or attach themselves to a club just because they're successful. It's a sure fire sign that they are very shallow characters.

I remember in the 80's and early 90's I used to go to York every year with my sister for the Ebor race meeting and always wore my Rovers top's as much as I could. I never saw another one for years. Fast forward to August 95 and I must have seen 20 at least in the 3 day's I was there.

I understand the psyche that people like to be associated with success but in my humble opinion it says a lot about that person, and not in a good way.

PS I hate Man U with a passion for how smug their fans were during our 2 or 3 years rivalry and the slant most of the newspapers put on it. Condescending feckers.