The real Brexit thread

[Benjamin Kaynine]

The above has to be a parody of some right wing shock jock. No one in their right mind could seriously type that stuff and seriously believe it

 

[yoda]

The above has to be a parody of some right wing shock jock. No one in their right mind could seriously type that stuff and seriously believe it

Yes Jim

 

[Dunnfc]

The above has to be a parody of some right wing shock jock. No one in their right mind could seriously type that stuff and seriously believe it

People are waking up, I was surprised to see how many supportive comments on the BBC brexit article today for leave. Looks like the remoaners have given up or become educated over brexit.

Christ 75,000 football fans no arrests made on a march against Islam in London last week. How many turned up in London the week before for supporting the EU 2,000? Laughable the country is now right Benjamin and you've at least another 4 years to enjoy it.

Meanwhile Labour MP Owen Smith confirms there is no real appetite in the UK for another referendum despite 1 or 2 nutjobs in the MSM with the BBC previously suggesting so. Even Corbyn has suggested there will not be one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4976684/Owen-Smith-says-s-no-appetite-second-referendum.html

 

[Drog]

Nail on head here. The disparity in the economics of UK regions resulted in the EU referendum result. Much of Brexiteers had it's base as a protest vote by those isolated in the sticks.
The two tribes of modern Britain
"There’s a “stand-off” in Britain today, between those I call the Anywheres – educated, mobile, typically Remain-voting types – and the Somewheres – more rooted and conservative, typically Leave-voting types. Their world views are both “decent and legitimate”, yet the two groups are separated by a wide gulf of values and understanding. This is a symptom of the unhealthy dominance of London and the southeast. Less centralised countries such as Germany don’t have this sort of cultural divide because able, ambitious people there don’t feel the same need to up sticks and head for the capital. They can find decent higher education and job opportunities in their home town. There’s no rift between rootless Anywheres who value “diversity and freedom”, and Somewheres who care about protecting their own patch, because everyone rubs along together and shares a similar sense of regional identity. Britain can’t become Germany overnight, but it does need to find some common causes and projects to bind our split society together."
David Goodhart (The Guardian)

 

[davebirch]

The more I see of government, the more of corruption is apparent.
The latest , from the assassination of that brave lady from Malta, reinforces it with me.
Why would you impose another level of government on yourselves?
All it does is hide the gravy train.
We need more people like this brave lady to keep these bastards honest
Take the EU back to what it was, with proper oversight, and it could be a great thing for the world. As it is, it just feeds the gravy train.

 

[Drog]

Link....... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist
An odious mix of EU corruption allied to Soviet style pragmatism at a guess.

Old Lingard was never more pompous or smarmy then when Malta got the EU presidency just as we announced we were leaving. https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/search/&q=malta eu presidency&author=philipl. He must have anticipated his position of influence in both countries as a potential gold mine and us oiks in the North had trhe temerity to spike his ambitions somewhat. Would be interesting to hear his woolly liberal take on what appears to be political assassination. Folk like him just don't get it do they? The real world is beyond their 60's comprehension.
I believe at the time that I referred to little Malta telling the UK how Brexit would pan out as that old 50's comedy 'The mouse that roared".

 

[Barmitzvah Boy]

Link....... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/16/malta-car-bomb-kills-panama-papers-journalist
An odious mix of EU corruption allied to Soviet style pragmatism at a guess.

Old Lingard was never more pompous or smarmy then when Malta got the EU presidency just as we announced we were leaving. https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/search/&q=malta eu presidency&author=philipl. He must have anticipated his position of influence in both countries as a potential gold mine and us oiks in the North had trhe temerity to spike his ambitions somewhat. Would be interesting to hear his woolly liberal take on what appears to be political assassination. Folk like him just don't get it do they? The real world is beyond their 60's comprehension.
I believe at the time that I referred to little Malta telling the UK how Brexit would pan out as that old 50's comedy 'The mouse that roared".

12 month’s ago I went to two conferences funded by the EU and organised by the Maltese. These were 3 nights each; one in Poland and one in Hungary. They were a waste of time, a waste of money and nothing but a freebie (except we are partially paying for them) and a junket with fine food and wines. The hotels were magnificent. The conference business could have been done via a video conference in 2 to 3 hours. All funded to keep the Maltese happy.

I have also been to Brussels and the Parliament in Strasbourg and have witnessed first hand the machine we contribute towards.......Eurocrats with vested interests- it stinks.

 

[Benjamin Kaynine]

Nail on head here. The disparity in the economics of UK regions resulted in the EU referendum result. Much of Brexiteers had it's base as a protest vote by those isolated in the sticks.
The two tribes of modern Britain
"There’s a “stand-off” in Britain today, between those I call the Anywheres – educated, mobile, typically Remain-voting types – and the Somewheres – more rooted and conservative, typically Leave-voting types. Their world views are both “decent and legitimate”, yet the two groups are separated by a wide gulf of values and understanding. This is a symptom of the unhealthy dominance of London and the southeast. Less centralised countries such as Germany don’t have this sort of cultural divide because able, ambitious people there don’t feel the same need to up sticks and head for the capital. They can find decent higher education and job opportunities in their home town. There’s no rift between rootless Anywheres who value “diversity and freedom”, and Somewheres who care about protecting their own patch, because everyone rubs along together and shares a similar sense of regional identity. Britain can’t become Germany overnight, but it does need to find some common causes and projects to bind our split society together."
David Goodhart (The Guardian)

Good analysis by the Guardian but does beg the question of why those self same Brexit voters probably voted Conservative in the 1980s when Norman Tebbit was ignoring the plight of the north and exhorting everyone to "get on their bikes" in search of a job (presumably to the south east). Brexit in my eyes was a protest vote, but largely about immigration. Brexit voters who blamed the EU for economic isolation were looking at the wrong target. London has always been the cause of inequality in this country, not Brussels.

 

[Drog]

Freed from ingrained political influence Brexit was the result of a mixture of opinion and not just a single issue. People didn't see the eu doing anything for them for any number of reasons so they voted accordingly. You may not like it much but it was democracy in action in a way that General Elections aren't. Just as an aside it's my opinion that GE's are won and lost by the dead, their legacy sown in the minds of children and grandchildren still holds influence a couple of generations later. "My Dad would be spinning in his grave if I voted for them" . Shouldn't be like that of course but it is.

As for my own opinion Angela Merkel, the eu mandarins in their ivory towers plus our own press and media reporting on the floodgates opening to the south and east of the continent giving licence to uncontrolled islamic expansionism did more to sway public opinion in this country than anything Nigel, Boris and Michael could ever do!
I've a feeling this nation will come around to viewing the northern influence in the referendum with much gratitude in the fullness of time.

 

[Benjamin Kaynine]

Freed from ingrained political influence Brexit was the result of a mixture of opinion and not just a single issue. People didn't see the eu doing anything for them for any number of reasons so they voted accordingly.

Possibly true, but not borne out by evidence. There's loads of research as to why people voted Leave, and the overwheming majority of them said immigration. Here's just one report on the subject, with this pertinent quote:

"It’s important we remember that this is a referendum that has only been made possible due to a long, hard-fought campaign by those on the far-right and political movements ridden with allegations of bigotry, xenophobia, and racism."

https://www.verdict.co.uk/brexit-racism-why-did-people-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

So like it or not, immigration is the principal cause of the Leave vote. And, as many have said, if the economy tanks as a result of leaving the EU, "it's a price worth paying".

 

[ABBEY]

Just accept the frigging democratic vote Jim ffs

 

[yoda]

Possibly true, but not borne out by evidence. There's loads of research as to why people voted Leave, and the overwheming majority of them said immigration. Here's just one report on the subject, with this pertinent quote:

"It’s important we remember that this is a referendum that has only been made possible due to a long, hard-fought campaign by those on the far-right and political movements ridden with allegations of bigotry, xenophobia, and racism."

https://www.verdict.co.uk/brexit-racism-why-did-people-vote-to-leave-the-eu/

So like it or not, immigration is the principal cause of the Leave vote. And, as many have said, if the economy tanks as a result of leaving the EU, "it's a price worth paying".

Well I voted to leave the 4th Reich which is being controlled by Soros and Co

 

[Drog]

So like it or not, immigration is the principal cause of the Leave vote. And, as many have said, if the economy tanks as a result of leaving the EU, "it's a price worth paying".

"principle cause" Well if that's the case then blame must be absolved from the electorate and be directed again to the fairly recent phenomenon of 'career' politicians. Elected representatives who have deplorably shirked their duty by not representing large swathes of the electorate for decades and have allowed virtually unrestricted immigration into this country since the 60's. Presumably for fear of suffering the same fate as Powell and effectively ending their political careers.
Take our own town for example. The demise of King Cotton (unavoidable) and the massive swing in demography caused by large scale immigration from the Indian sub-continent (avoidable) has changed Blackburn's society and it's citizens more than anyone back then could ever have imagined or probably wanted. 5% immigrants would not have caused deep resentment but as those still left in the town Blackburn's indigenous citizens now face an inevitable asian muslim majority in the very near future, a council already controlled by the islamic vote and the very real prospect of sharia law The change has been unwanted and insidious. We live in a democracy we are told but did we get a chance to vote on the issue? Did we hell! Free speech has been eroded so much that we are discouraged from even talking about it!

History tells us time and again that sooner or later the worm will always turn.

 

[OnlyOneTugay]

Good analysis by the Guardian but does beg the question of why those self same Brexit voters probably voted Conservative in the 1980s when Norman Tebbit was ignoring the plight of the north and exhorting everyone to "get on their bikes" in search of a job (presumably to the south east). Brexit in my eyes was a protest vote, but largely about immigration. Brexit voters who blamed the EU for economic isolation were looking at the wrong target. London has always been the cause of inequality in this country, not Brussels.

Norman Tebbitt was a visionary and realized that manufacturing trade was being pulled from the North towards London and the South East as this article from 2004 alludes to :

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/CP163.pdf

Joining the EEC shifted UK trade away from former trading partners and towards the six original members of the EEC project. Dover expanded and Liverpool declined . All Norman did was tell people that the opportunities were increasingly to be found in London and the South East . I had numerous friends who " got on their bikes " and now live in the South . They've had great lives. I guess the Socialists answer to unemployment is " sit on your backsides and we'll pay you benefits " It's a clever tactic - a bribe to continue voting Labour whilst living in misery. Corbyn is continuing the trend as " briber in chief " Socialists hate individual aspiration .

Manufacturing accounted for more than 20 per cent of the economy in 1997 when Labour came into power. By 2007, that share had declined to 12.4 per cent. Bankers and estate agents in London and the South East did very well under Blair and Brown, whilst an increasing number of northerners lost skilled manufacturing jobs.

If any party ignored the plight of the North it was Labour and joining the EEC just made it worse

 

[blueandwhitehalves]

Possibly true, but not borne out by evidence. There's loads of research as to why people voted Leave, and the overwheming majority of them said immigration. Here's just one report on the subject, with this pertinent quote:

"It’s important we remember that this is a referendum that has only been made possible due to a long, hard-fought campaign by those on the far-right and political movements ridden with allegations of bigotry, xenophobia, and racism."

Absolute garbage. Yet again, an outlandish, nonsense statement precluded by a claim that what you're about to hear is fact.

"Its important we remember" that Steve Kean was the world's greatest manager and the Blackburn fans acted out of xenophobia because he was Scottish.

No actually, its not important we remember a massively subjective, biased and lazy generalisation from your unsourced "report".

 

[OnlyOneTugay]

Hold on a minute Blue and White, you're not questioning Benjamin's quote of the " pertinent quote " from worldly wise Areeq Chowdhury are you? ( the Sage is pictured below) ?

 

[Benjamin Kaynine]

If any party ignored the plight of the North it was Labour and joining the EEC just made it worse

Neo-liberalism started in Chicago and was taken up with glee by the Conservative party under Thatcher in the 1980s. Its project was to take power and money from the poorest and weakest and put it in the hands of the rich and elite. New Labour did nothing to arrest it from 1997-2010 but the principal architects of the attack on the north and its people was and always has been the Conservative party. And their disregard for the north continues to this day - witness southern MP Chris Grayling handing out another £15bn for London transport projects while cancelling schemes in the north.

Just accept the frigging democratic vote Jim ffs

My name is Chris

 

[yoda]

Neo-liberalism started in Chicago and was taken up with glee by the Conservative party under Thatcher in the 1980s. Its project was to take power and money from the poorest and weakest and put it in the hands of the rich and elite. New Labour did nothing to arrest it from 1997-2010 but the principal architects of the attack on the north and its people was and always has been the Conservative party. And their disregard for the north continues to this day - witness southern MP Chris Grayling handing out another £15bn for London transport projects while cancelling schemes in the north.



My name is Chris

Not a lot of people know that

 

[Drog]

Neo-liberalism started in Chicago and was taken up with glee by the Conservative party under Thatcher in the 1980s. Its project was to take power and money from the poorest and weakest and put it in the hands of the rich and elite. New Labour did nothing to arrest it from 1997-2010 but the principal architects of the attack on the north and its people was and always has been the Conservative party. And their disregard for the north continues to this day - witness southern MP Chris Grayling handing out another £15bn for London transport projects while cancelling schemes in the north.



My name is Chris

I thought it was Benjamin! However it might be true. I think old Dawkins would rather take a cyanide capsule before he'd begin a sentence with "And".

 

[OnlyOneTugay]

Neo-liberalism started in Chicago and was taken up with glee by the Conservative party under Thatcher in the 1980s. Its project was to take power and money from the poorest and weakest and put it in the hands of the rich and elite. New Labour did nothing to arrest it from 1997-2010 but the principal architects of the attack on the north and its people was and always has been the Conservative party. And their disregard for the north continues to this day - witness southern MP Chris Grayling handing out another £15bn for London transport projects while cancelling schemes in the north.



My name is Chris

Chris, do you really think that in government, an anti - Semitic , London based Labour Party , with a racist Home Secretary ( who shames intelligent black women ), a Foreign Secretary who looks down on the patriotic working class and a Chancellor and Prime Minister who are well known terrorist sympathisers , will have any interest in the northern working classes ? If you do then you need lessons in counter naivety. .