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[Steve Moss]

No, the UK has different problems. Rapes, assaults and home invasions are more common in the UK than the USA.

But you raise a good point about the entirety of the West has been traveling down the same road.

 

[ABBEY]

 

[ABBEY]

Mates post ...sums it up in one rant perfectly

 

[Vinjay]

No, the UK has different problems. Rapes, assaults and home invasions are more common in the UK than the USA.

But you raise a good point about the entirety of the West has been traveling down the same road.

Also different interpretations of "reasonable force" and that's before you even bring guns into it. Obviously in the US there's greater odds of burglars being shot by homeowners or even both shooting each other. Might read more on self defence laws and "reasonable force" compared to the UK besides guns. If you smashed a burglar over the head with a hammer for instance in the UK consequences are different to the US. In regards to blunt instruments its impossible to police inside the home anyway. Of course you never hear about 17 people being killed in a hammer spree within such a short space of time.

I know there's the Troy Martin case but once again that's bringing up guns. My view is that people should have the right to deal with a burglar as they see fit dependent on weapon laws, etc. A baseball bat to the skull...fine by me. I probably wouldn't try to kill a burglar (fortunately I've never been burgled) too much paperwork (lol) and concern about "excessive force" laws. I don't think "excessive force" should be an issue though. I know burglary isn't a crime beyond redemption but its not my problem. Hypothetical (and probably silly) to the extreme here but if they are stealing money to pay for their daughter/sons operation (rare cancers, tumours not covered by NHS, etc) you might feel more pity than a crackhead with multiple convictions of course. Yet how are you supposed to know what their reasons are? You're hardly going to say "excuse me" what are your specific reasons for this burglary attempt. Therefore I think killing them without fear of prosecution is justifiable. Especially in the "heat of the moment".

Just found this article and agree barring this guy was ludicrous.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ence-guru-Tim-Larkin-barred-from-Britain.html

 

[Alan]

Larkin is absolutely right. You have more problems than the burglar if you catch one in your house. If you attack him you are the one in trouble. It's absolutely stupid. If you catch somebody in your house you should be allowed to disable him and if absolutely necessary kill him in defence of yourself and your property.

 

[Vinjay]

Indeed and the courts ought to side with the home owners version of events. If a burglar was killed by a single blow to the skull with a blunt instrument how can anyone dispute if you say it was in the "heat of the moment?" If its several blows to the skull who's to say the guy didn't keep getting up and attempting to attack until the final blow finished him off?

 

[Wilpshire Blue]

Give yourself a quick whack on the head afterwards and it’s self-defence

 

[Vinjay]

I'm not sure what they thought Larkin was going to do start a ninja uprising? Anyone who wants to take self defence classes will generally seek out that opportunity themselves. Many may start early in life typically karate classes but other martial art disciplines as well. They might do it for professional reasons but can transfer those skills to everyday life if called upon. What next ban people from going to the gym? Ban military training?

I never took any martial arts or self defence classes. I recognised my limitations and knew that no level of training could turn me into a competent fighter even in minor playground scuffles. Also I've never liked pain much and considering I've never broken any bones, etc its something I've avoided pretty successfully. Physical pain anyway better not even get started on my mental/emotional problems. Some of that is luck of course but its common sense as well. Some people lack self awareness of what's around them. Sometimes in an ignorant way (slow walkers in shopping centres irritate me) and sometimes in a reckless way.

What if I had possessed even the most rudimentary physical fighting skills? At the very least I would have recognised it as a realistic means of learning some basic defence skills. For me probably the most "severe" assault I've suffered would have been a punch to the face. Didn't have any teeth knocked out and such instances were extremely sporadic. Of course playgrounds aren't exactly full of Mike Tyson's. If a toddler hits you on the nose it may hurt but its not going to cause any serious damage is it? A one off punch from a 11 year old (obviously the typical example would be hitting another child not an adult) isn't likely to be worse than a bruise at most if even that. On the other hand kids constantly bullied will have more physical scars and certainly emotional ones.

I was probably called names more than some children (and probably less than some others though I would say more were below me) but hardly to the extent of being a living hell. Can remember in my generally good reports there was usually a line about my tendency to get involved in silly childish squabbles. I wasn't an unpleasant child and normally it would have been because someone provoked me. It was probably because I was easier to wind up than some kids. Not from a general temper standpoint or moodiness (my mood wasn't typically grumpy or moody and I didn't hate school) just easier to provoke. That's a trait that's always been there even when it was on a much lesser level. Kids are shielded more from everyday irritants and responsibilities as well so there wasn't as much to be miserable about. I certainly didn't endure relentless name calling and I've covered physical bullying.

Of course I had certain prejudices like anyone else. As my childhood progressed for instance I noticed that kids who supported Manchester United were often more unlikable than others. As for racism I won't deny sometimes referring to the Asian kids as "pakis" (mainly amongst ourselves I can only ever recall calling someone a paki to their face once and it was a childish response to him provoking me) but so did most of the other white kids. The ones I was closest with haven't grown up to become white supremacists or vicious anti-social criminals. I don't refer to Asians by such names now.

I won't deny as an adult I've made some childish jokes. If I was with someone who knows me well and we passed a Muslim with a turban/long beard I would quite possibly discreetly utter a cheap Bin Laden joke especially before he was killed. There's a difference between that though and posting a "flying with Bin Laden" video on Youtube. To be honest that did somewhat amuse me despite knowing it was very wrong for them to do it. That's an exception though if I saw someone wearing a Germany shirt I'm not gonna say something like "Fritz just walked past". WW2 was a long time ago and I've never felt animosity towards Germans. I'm not anti-muslim either (some people on here are far more outspoken about Islam than me) but ISIS and Al Qaeda have been 21st century problems. Not directly one of their victims but their reputation for idiocy is known worldwide.

I was prejudiced towards fat people as a child and I still am now. Yeah its childish but everyone needs something to poke fun at lol. Its not like I walk up to them and yell FAT BASTARD though. They are people I joke about in discreet conversations to avoid being insensitive and I suppose to avoid them hitting me. If some random person insulted me though there's a difference. If they were fat I would probably respond with an insult relating to that. If they were average/thin with ginger hair or baldness I probably wouldn't make a remark about their appearance as a retort. Generally I couldn't care less what colour someones hair is or if they have any.

Of course now I have social anxiety and aspergers and they aren't issues that just disappear. As a child I was sometimes quiet and preferred to mind my own business or work alone. I joined in with stuff on the playground though and I played outside with other neighbourhood kids so hardly anti-social. Truth be told I was becoming more moody and withdrawn towards the end of high school. At that point I still didn't hate it but I was kinda tiring of it. Generally though I was much happier being a child (particularly in the late 90's) than I've ever been as an adult. After leaving my anxiety issues became worse and my social withdrawal wasn't helped by practically everyone I knew growing up moving elsewhere. That's life of course (most people move especially in early adulthood) but some people are more vulnerable than others dealing with such realities in the "real" world. On the other hand I never resorted to taking drugs or drowning myself in alcohol. With the former I've never even tried any and from the few times I've tasted alcohol never liked it. I just bottled up my problems in a different way lol.

My issues with Rovers fans probably started a year after leaving school (I left school in 2003 and registered on BRFCS in 2005) and we all know what my main problem was. It was more like a slow burn from summer 04 until joining the forum in 05. That didn't make things better as I was abused and more and more issues came to the forefront (though my main one never changed) until I felt alienated. I'll admit that my approach was wrong (taking threads off topic and my posts all being on that subject) and that I'm still obsessed now but at least I can discuss other things. My anger was just so high though and bottled up for too long.

Anyway I need to get away from my habit of talking about myself and making references to the Walkers. Can't help myself when I get going though especially editing my posts to add more!

 

[ABBEY]

steve...do you actually know personally as a friend who has been shot and murdered?
I do i was quizzed years ago when someone i knew very well was executed in his garage by a Texan with mafia links.
Ive been to America and fired guns at a range and blown up rocks for a road with my cousin.
Guns are for snivelling cowards with not enough bollocks about them to use their fists.

 

[Steve Moss]

Also different interpretations of "reasonable force" and that's before you even bring guns into it. Obviously in the US there's greater odds of burglars being shot by homeowners or even both shooting each other. Might read more on self defence laws and "reasonable force" compared to the UK besides guns. If you smashed a burglar over the head with a hammer for instance in the UK consequences are different to the US. In regards to blunt instruments its impossible to police inside the home anyway. Of course you never hear about 17 people being killed in a hammer spree within such a short space of time.

The manner of death is irrelevant. Murder is murder.

There have been many hammer killing sprees. Here’s one. http://boredomtherapy.com/killing-spree/

Also the UK’s murder rate has been relativity constant, both pre and post gun ban. It has not made you safer.

 

[Steve Moss]

You say the Second Amendment is there to protect from the tyranny of government but if they wanted to they could take all your guns tomorrow and you wouldn’t do a thing about it.

Tell that to the British at Lexington and Concorde. Or the Irish. Or the Vietnamese.

 

[Steve Moss]

Larkin is absolutely right. You have more problems than the burglar if you catch one in your house. If you attack him you are the one in trouble. It's absolutely stupid. If you catch somebody in your house you should be allowed to disable him and if absolutely necessary kill him in defence of yourself and your property.

In Arizona, if you catch a person committing a felony in your house, you are presumptively entitled to use deadly force.

http://azccwpermit.com/?cat=5

 

[Wilpshire Blue]

Dunblane was over 20 years ago and we haven’t had a school “massacre” since.

This is a Wikipedia list of all types of massacre in Britain, only 13 in the last hundred years.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Great_Britain

One-off killings of individuals happen all over the world by many different means.
Massacring children at school, however, thankfully very rare in Britain is anything but in the states.

 

[Steve Moss]

One-off killings of individuals happen all over the world by many different means.
Massacring children at school, however, thankfully very rare in Britain is anything but in the states.

And have been accelerating since the idiots in DC decided to make schools “gun free” zones in the early 90s. Before then, when I was in high school, there were trucks with rifles and shotguns in their racks, and always a teacher or two that had his hunting rifle in his closet or a pistol in his jacket pocket. Funny how we had precious few mass school shootings in those days.

 

[Vinjay]

By a "short space of time" I meant how long such shooting sprees normally last. It took Cruz just 6 minutes to kill all those people and he was apprehended about a hour later. Those attacks in the article above took place over a few weeks so yes I would call it a "spree" but not in the same way. Serial killers (Cruz is one of course but I mean Yorkshire Ripper types) however often have long periods of inactivity between killings. Sometimes it may even be years so even if you still class it as a spree its different. BTK hadn't killed anyone for 14 years at the time he was apprehended (after the police tracked him down via a floppy disk he sent to them in the mail) though there's evidence he was planning to kill again. The floppy disk story is strange for someone who was pretty meticulous (he was a bit of a jobsworth apparently in his working life not that most are serial killers lol) but the evidence shows he didn't want to be caught at that time. Maybe later on he would have and I might have read that he intended to leave evidence of him being the killer following his own death. He was actually SURPRISED the police lied to him about the extent they can retrieve floppy disk data.

Note that in the UK cases I'm sure all those places are considered "Middle Class". Certainly they were not "sink estates" rife with crime in large cities or towns. All 3 people held grudges against their community which isn't exactly an uncommon reason for mass shootings. 2 of them killed relatives as well.

On the subject of teachers carrying guns, etc here's an article from a former Columbine High School student. Not all people caught up in such cases are anti-gun. I bet some of the people who were hiding in the closets at Parkland were pro gun and a few of them might even still be. I'm pretty sure the majority probably aren't but don't assume all of them will be protesting against the NRA, etc.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot...umbine-student-wants-firearms-schools/116942/

 

[ABBEY]

And have been accelerating since the idiots in DC decided to make schools “gun free” zones in the early 90s. Before then, when I was in high school, there were trucks with rifles and shotguns in their racks, and always a teacher or two that had his hunting rifle in his closet or a pistol in his jacket pocket. Funny how we had precious few mass school shootings in those days.

wow sounds like syria

 

[Alan]

I'm not sure what they thought Larkin was going to do start a ninja uprising? Anyone who wants to take self defence classes will generally seek out that opportunity themselves. Many may start early in life typically karate classes but other martial art disciplines as well. They might do it for professional reasons but can transfer those skills to everyday life if called upon. What next ban people from going to the gym? Ban military training?

I never took any martial arts or self defence classes. I recognised my limitations and knew that no level of training could turn me into a competent fighter even in minor playground scuffles. Also I've never liked pain much and considering I've never broken any bones, etc its something I've avoided pretty successfully. Physical pain anyway better not even get started on my mental/emotional problems. Some of that is luck of course but its common sense as well. Some people lack self awareness of what's around them. Sometimes in an ignorant way (slow walkers in shopping centres irritate me) and sometimes in a reckless way.

What if I had possessed even the most rudimentary physical fighting skills? At the very least I would have recognised it as a realistic means of learning some basic defence skills. For me probably the most "severe" assault I've suffered would have been a punch to the face. Didn't have any teeth knocked out and such instances were extremely sporadic. Of course playgrounds aren't exactly full of Mike Tyson's. If a toddler hits you on the nose it may hurt but its not going to cause any serious damage is it? A one off punch from a 11 year old (obviously the typical example would be hitting another child not an adult) isn't likely to be worse than a bruise at most if even that. On the other hand kids constantly bullied will have more physical scars and certainly emotional ones.

I was probably called names more than some children (and probably less than some others though I would say more were below me) but hardly to the extent of being a living hell. Can remember in my generally good reports there was usually a line about my tendency to get involved in silly childish squabbles. I wasn't an unpleasant child and normally it would have been because someone provoked me. It was probably because I was easier to wind up than some kids. Not from a general temper standpoint or moodiness (my mood wasn't typically grumpy or moody and I didn't hate school) just easier to provoke. That's a trait that's always been there even when it was on a much lesser level. Kids are shielded more from everyday irritants and responsibilities as well so there wasn't as much to be miserable about. I certainly didn't endure relentless name calling and I've covered physical bullying.

Of course I had certain prejudices like anyone else. As my childhood progressed for instance I noticed that kids who supported Manchester United were often more unlikable than others. As for racism I won't deny sometimes referring to the Asian kids as "pakis" (mainly amongst ourselves I can only ever recall calling someone a paki to their face once and it was a childish response to him provoking me) but so did most of the other white kids. The ones I was closest with haven't grown up to become white supremacists or vicious anti-social criminals. I don't refer to Asians by such names now.

I won't deny as an adult I've made some childish jokes. If I was with someone who knows me well and we passed a Muslim with a turban/long beard I would quite possibly discreetly utter a cheap Bin Laden joke especially before he was killed. There's a difference between that though and posting a "flying with Bin Laden" video on Youtube. To be honest that did somewhat amuse me despite knowing it was very wrong for them to do it. That's an exception though if I saw someone wearing a Germany shirt I'm not gonna say something like "Fritz just walked past". WW2 was a long time ago and I've never felt animosity towards Germans. I'm not anti-muslim either (some people on here are far more outspoken about Islam than me) but ISIS and Al Qaeda have been 21st century problems. Not directly one of their victims but their reputation for idiocy is known worldwide.

I was prejudiced towards fat people as a child and I still am now. Yeah its childish but everyone needs something to poke fun at lol. Its not like I walk up to them and yell FAT BASTARD though. They are people I joke about in discreet conversations to avoid being insensitive and I suppose to avoid them hitting me. If some random person insulted me though there's a difference. If they were fat I would probably respond with an insult relating to that. If they were average/thin with ginger hair or baldness I probably wouldn't make a remark about their appearance as a retort. Generally I couldn't care less what colour someones hair is or if they have any.

Of course now I have social anxiety and aspergers and they aren't issues that just disappear. As a child I was sometimes quiet and preferred to mind my own business or work alone. I joined in with stuff on the playground though and I played outside with other neighbourhood kids so hardly anti-social. Truth be told I was becoming more moody and withdrawn towards the end of high school. At that point I still didn't hate it but I was kinda tiring of it. Generally though I was much happier being a child (particularly in the late 90's) than I've ever been as an adult. After leaving my anxiety issues became worse and my social withdrawal wasn't helped by practically everyone I knew growing up moving elsewhere. That's life of course (most people move especially in early adulthood) but some people are more vulnerable than others dealing with such realities in the "real" world. On the other hand I never resorted to taking drugs or drowning myself in alcohol. With the former I've never even tried any and from the few times I've tasted alcohol never liked it. I just bottled up my problems in a different way lol.

My issues with Rovers fans probably started a year after leaving school (I left school in 2003 and registered on BRFCS in 2005) and we all know what my main problem was. It was more like a slow burn from summer 04 until joining the forum in 05. That didn't make things better as I was abused and more and more issues came to the forefront (though my main one never changed) until I felt alienated. I'll admit that my approach was wrong (taking threads off topic and my posts all being on that subject) and that I'm still obsessed now but at least I can discuss other things. My anger was just so high though and bottled up for too long.

Anyway I need to get away from my habit of talking about myself and making references to the Walkers. Can't help myself when I get going though especially editing my posts to add more!

Another tome from Vinjay. I can't be bothered to read all that lot. If you want to write your memoirs I suggest you try to get them published and not write them all on here.

 

[Vinjay]

Yes well at least I acknowledged it if you see the end of the post. If you didn't read it then how can you comment? You probably assumed certain things would be mentioned (you were right I suppose if so) but long posts generally shouldn't be discouraged. Its a forum if people want only short posts use twitter.

Plane crash in Iran has killed 66 people with this article blaming US sanctions.

http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2018/02/18/552817/Plane-crash-US-Iran-sanctions-aviation

The US under Obama's administration were involved in a deal known as the JCPOA. Trump feels the deal was embarrassing and needs to be toughened or torn up altogether.

Last September the House of Representatives voted for some new measures blocking sales of new commercial aircraft to Iran. That's where the scapegoating in that article comes into play. Iran's civilian aircraft is in need of modernisation and they have a dreadful aviation safety record since their last revolution. I think that's referring to 1979 when the "Shah" was ousted.

Perhaps they should take more steps to build their own aircraft or review basic health and safety laws.

 

[Drog]

Another tome from Vinjay. I can't be bothered to read all that lot. If you want to write your memoirs I suggest you try to get them published and not write them all on here.

It's fair enough Al. No board rules were broken were they? Take it or leave it would be my advice. I did find it all a little like one of those introductory confessions in some support group or other but if you didn't read it through then you can't really criticise imo.

Lot of blather but he did outline some valid points. One of which I've agreed with for many years. Children fighting in the junior playground is now deemed a much more serious offence these days with (and I might be wrong) reports being sent to the governors, the police and the social services. A stupid and short sighted policy imo as basic manners and social skills involving human interaction are best learned at an early age when individuals aren't physically strong enough to cause serious physical damage to others. Receiving such 'extra curricular' instruction can prove to be a pretty dangerous learning curve on a saturday night down town.